Alternate Aircraft of Nations

[Peg Leg Pom]

1950

In an attempt to intimidate Viet Minh insurgents, and the PRC, France deploys 3 squadrons of ME 262 jet fighters to northern Vietnam. French firms had been forced to produce the Jet before the liberation and had restarted production, with better engines, in 1948 rather than pay the licencing fee for the De Havilland Vampire.

 

[Virginia Liberal]

1950

In an attempt to intimidate Viet Minh insurgents, and the PRC, France deploys 3 squadrons of ME 262 jet fighters to northern Vietnam. French firms had been forced to produce the Jet before the liberation and had restarted production, with better engines, in 1948 rather than pay the licencing fee for the De Havilland Vampire.

what engines would they have put under the wings ?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

what engines would they have put under the wings ?

The simplest option would be improved versions of the original engines built with proper heat resistant alloys. Another option would be a development of the Metrovik axial flow engines trialled on the Meteor.

 

[Hammerbolt]

The simplest option would be improved versions of the original engines built with proper heat resistant alloys. Another option would be a development of the Metrovik axial flow engines trialled on the Meteor.

Forget the original then. You'd have to redesign & test it from scratch...

 

[tomo pauk]

The simplest option would be improved versions of the original engines built with proper heat resistant alloys. Another option would be a development of the Metrovik axial flow engines trialled on the Meteor.

Oestrich's team is working in France already in 1946, improving the BMW 003 into the Atar 101. It might not be far-fatched that '003++' (sorta half-way between the 003 and Atar 101) is used?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Oestrich's team is working in France already in 1946, improving the BMW 003 into the Atar 101. It might not be far-fatched that '003++' (sorta half-way between the 003 and Atar 101) is used?

It seems plausible that they'd at least try it. If the French are trying to avoid paying licence fees for the Vampire they probably don't want to pay them for the engines if they can avoid it.

 

[Monk78]

Fixed-wing MiG-23, wing being size of the one used on MiG-29 (so it is easier to pack the fuel tanks inside, while having good lift and reasonable drag, and more leeway wrt, wing racks), with 2-3 drop tanks and 4 AAMs.
MiG-25-like fighters, that is not tailored for great speeds (max 2.2 - 2.3 Mach?). Should be a lot lighter than the MiG-25, and better for maneuvering fight, even if that should've been avoided IMO. 'Normal' jet engines instead of the very heavy engines that MiG-25 used (obviously, again a major weight saving). The -25 already packed a lot of fuel (15 tons - !) without the drop tanks.

But maneuvering fight is exactly what the Soviet pilot should be avoiding given the limitations of R3S and their training OTL
The way I look at it is that escort Fighter would be basically a suicidal one-way mission to keep the NATO interceptors busy while the Soviet bomber can launch their standoff weapons
Another option would be that these interceptors be equipped with air to air nuclear missiles ? Possibly to cause more confusion amongst the interceptors

 

[Monk78]

Well you wanted a long range fighter pre Su-27...

And even the west would have problems with such escort duties. All 3 west fighters depended heavily on AWACs right untill the final stage, where superior on board radar and tactics would take over. But you can't take AWACs, and the tankers would have to stay severall 100 miles back. But the defender has all the advantages: it can both "listen" for the attacker's radars (unless they try to fly blind...) and also have it's own AWACs up. This is why long range missiles were invented: shoot as far away as possible. In that time frame, the soviets have a decisive advantage.

In which timeframe do the Soviets have an advantage in long range AAM ?

 

[Hammerbolt]

In which timeframe do the Soviets have an advantage in long range AAM ?

Sorry, should have expanded. I meant "long range air/ground missiles"; I meant for the bombers (Backfires?) to salvo off their AS-6 missiles from 400-500km away and gtfo asap.

 

[Nick Sumner]

Skylon, a spaceplane that never flew in our world but would have in the Drake's Drum timeline. (NB this image is Photoshopped)

 

[M79]

'Star Raker' - Space X Bigelow Consolidated

While the hypersonic dive from 45000 feet to barrly 35000 feet may scare passengers, it is necessary to kickstart the ramjets in this revolutionary SSTO reusable cargo craft with 100 ton capacity. Together with the Bigelow 3350 module this permitted the assembly of the 80-unit Columbus Station - the first orbital residential/industrial complex - in less than 5 years with an opening in 2010. Its now expanded population of 15000 serve as gatekeepers for the Musk-Bigelow space empire with manned platforms from Venutian orbit to the Asteroid Belt. Their technology is also the basis for their three corporate and four national space program competitors. And according to those who have stayed at the Hilton Apex resort with near-zero-g pool and other activities also provides a stunning view of everything around them.

Star-Raker

Star-Raker is a giant HTHL SSTO spaceplane purposed by Rockwell International to create a network of solar power satellites. Early studies by Rockwell indicated that a Horizontal Takeoff, Horizontal Landing (HTHL) single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) spacecraft was not possible and a HTHL...

spacecraft.fandom.com

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

July 1970.

A Sea Vixen of the Honourable East India Company Navy returns with damage from a strike on rebel and Imperial Japanese Army positions in Formosa.

 

[Count of Crisco]

July 1970.

A Sea Vixen of the Honourable East India Company Navy returns with damage from a strike on rebel and Imperial Japanese Army positions in Formosa.

HEICN Is way to short of an abbreviation and we can do better. What about the Honorable East India Company Maritime Trade Defense Forces HEICMTDF?

 

[sonofpegasus]

How about :- Honourable East India Company Maritime Air Service, which gives you, HEICMAS, which is at least pronounceable!!

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

How about :- Honourable East India Company Maritime Air Service, which gives you, HEICMAS, which is at least pronounceable!!

BMAS

Bombay Marine Air Service.

(Bombay Marine was the nickname of the East India Company's naval force. Not to be confused with its very heavily armed merchant ships)

 

[pvicente]

Welcome to sunny Haiti, today's independence day celebrations will have a few special treats, courtesy of the French Directorate's Garde Consulaire. Later on the evening their world famous orchestra will give a special concert with several classic revolutionary songs, including "La guillotine permanente", yes you probably have heard their take on it on the radio or a record already, but believe me, hearing it live is a whole different experience, and the tickets are free, just be sure to go pick them early before they run out.

With the tickets taken care of, I suggest that you take a bit of the afternoon to watch the airshow, again the Garde Consulaire will be present with a few Brumaires, they are quite a sight with their retro paint schemes. Yes, that's the chubby little Brumaire that was being phased out of the Leveé Populaire's reserves a while ago, it was a cutting edge machine when it was introduced, metal construction, enclosed cockpit, retractable landing gear, a realiable and easy to use radio, it changed quite a lot of things.

And the much trumpeted and announced "Voltigeur modèle B - CXXX - Brumaire" had a striking paint scheme to mark its debut, complete with yellow wings and the colourful "etólie nationale", actually there was a bit of turmoil around French aircraft markings at the time, with several different ideas floating around and rivers of red, white and blue paint running in many experiments. In the end cooler and pratical heads prevailed and the all white "étoile brillante" was introduced along with recommendations for more sober (and cheaper) paint schemes, a little later another directive added the bars to create the "étoile ailée" to make it more distinctive and recognizable and France's aerial regiments had their defenitive moderm markings.

Well, that's enough for now, don't miss the show, there's going to be a Polish Zero in it too.

 

[CaekDaemon]

Teeny-weeny necro (if misc threads like these can be necro'd?) but I posted something that people in here might find interesting over in the general Sci-Fi pictures thread, and figured that, hell, it should be here, too. The aerospace company Avpro from the UK, before going defunct, produced a massive number of artworks and concept paintings for future aircraft designs, some of which went on to influence games like Empire Earth as a concept of what the aircraft of tomorrow might look like. The forum has an image cap of three per thread per day, so...

...so you get three (technically four - that last image was small enough I could put another of the small ones with it in the same image upload, so still three images), but the entire collection is available here, and includes an absolutely gargantuan number of artworks and other interesting materials. Who knows? You might find something interesting, some whacky new concept suitable for a post in this thread, or maybe pieces for a timeline?

 

[Gokbay]

Teeny-weeny necro (if misc threads like these can be necro'd?) but I posted something that people in here might find interesting over in the general Sci-Fi pictures thread, and figured that, hell, it should be here, too. The aerospace company Avpro from the UK, before going defunct, produced a massive number of artworks and concept paintings for future aircraft designs, some of which went on to influence games like Empire Earth as a concept of what the aircraft of tomorrow might look like. The forum has an image cap of three per thread per day, so...

...so you get three (technically four - that last image was small enough I could put another of the small ones with it in the same image upload, so still three images), but the entire collection is available here, and includes an absolutely gargantuan number of artworks and other interesting materials. Who knows? You might find something interesting, some whacky new concept suitable for a post in this thread, or maybe pieces for a timeline?

Looking at the images in the Twitter thread looks very classic Battletech.

 

[sparky42]

Looking at the images in the Twitter thread looks very classic Battletech.

Seeing those “pods” for troops on the wings makes me think of that M113 nutter from around the same time.

 

[Canuck Wingnut]

The aerospace company Avpro from the UK, before going defunct, produced a massive number of artworks and concept paintings for future aircraft designs

Is that a seaplane (ekranoplan?) jet transport in the second image? I had thought that images of the seaplane as the future of aviation had faded out sometime in the '50s at the latest...