Air Force roundels and markings thread
- Thread starter False Dmitri
- Start date
Eh, I dunno. I would want to avoid a cockade roundel, in any case.
It can remain a square roundel, but the colour pattern/structure should be made differently than in the form of a checkboard.
Well, I mean the Czech roundel from my timeline, of course. That is already diamond-shaped and includes red and white as one of its main colours.
But if the two nations - the Poles and Czechs - are similarly aligned in the war which sees the adoption of aircraft roundels, then they'll likely adopt or be happy to adopt similar roundels. It'd only be an issue if they were later on different sides in a war, as seen with Romania's WW2 air insignia IOTL. Also, if the Czech roundel is the one which was on the tail above, then it's also got two other colours going.
But how will you be able to tell in the case of a low visibility version ?
Remember the crucial thing about all roundels: They have to be easily recognisable by pilots in flight, not by by ground personnel while parked. Hence the need for clear distinctiveness, either colour-based or pattern-based. Mistaking a friendly for a bandit could probe fatal, and mistaking a friendly from another nation's air force for your wingman could also cause confusion.
But how will you be able to tell in the case of a low visibility version ?
Remember the crucial thing about all roundels: They have to be easily recognisable by pilots in flight, not by by ground personnel while parked. Hence the need for clear distinctiveness, either colour-based or pattern-based. Mistaking a friendly for a bandit could probe fatal, and mistaking a friendly from another nation's air force for your wingman could also cause confusion.
Right, which is why I asked about alliances. As an example, during WW2 both the British and Americans in 1941 had roundels with a blue rim, white middle bit and red centre - but since they were on the same side, it didn't matter. The Romanians had adopted a cockade in WW1 when they were on the Entente side, but changed it into a cross in WW2 to match their allies. Pattern-based recognition is why all the Entente and Entente-friendly nations adopted cockades in the WW1 era, while the Central Powers aligned nations did not, and in WW2, aside from the Italians, the ETO Axis powers all used cross-based insignia.
In the modern era I think it's a bit of a stretch to argue the importance of the roundels distinctiveness, though - about half the world uses three-coloured cockades, which in low-viz form are essentially indistinguishable. Today the IFF is the key identifier. Even during WW2 and WW1, the silhouette of the aircraft was at least as important in identifying it - pilots could make out the likely design well before they could see the identifying marks, which contributed to quite a few Swiss Bf109s getting attacked.
Red roundel with white knight cross (if germany uses something else than iron cross) or hussars wing like on the armored forces badge
But how will you be able to tell in the case of a low visibility version ?
Remember the crucial thing about all roundels: They have to be easily recognisable by pilots in flight, not by by ground personnel while parked. Hence the need for clear distinctiveness, either colour-based or pattern-based. Mistaking a friendly for a bandit could probe fatal, and mistaking a friendly from another nation's air force for your wingman could also cause confusion.
How about the Hungarian OTL with just Red and white?
As I've said, I don't want to copycat. I want every (or nearly every) roundel in this TL to look unique. That goes for the Hungarian one too.
Though I've contemplated using either of these two OTL roundels as the ATL Hungarian one:
1919
1990-1991
I like the second one in particular.
I might still use the OTL post-1991 wedge in the end, but I'd prefer to be slightly more original with my choice, that's all.
Thank you, Marcin.
Why the cross, though ?
I haven't heard much of old Polish national symbols being associated with crosses.The winged hussar helmet roundel looks nice, but I don't know whether it's not a bit too complicated for an average air force roundel. Roundels should be relatively simple content-wise, even in this ATL.
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As I've said, I don't want to copycat. I want every (or nearly every) roundel in this TL to look unique. That goes for the Hungarian one too.
Though I've contemplated using either of these two OTL roundels as the ATL Hungarian one:
1919
1990-1991
I like the second one in particular.
I might still use the OTL post-1991 wedge in the end, but I'd prefer to be slightly more original with my choice, that's all.
Thank you, Marcin.
Why the cross, though ?
The winged hussar helmet roundel looks nice, but I don't know whether it's not a bit too complicated for an average air force roundel. Roundels should be relatively simple content-wise, even in this ATL.
A simplified Kościuszko's Squadron marking?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kościuszko's_Squadron
Or simply the White eagle on red background
Originally posted by Petike
The cross used by marcinL is so called chevalier cross (krzyż kawalerski), popular symbol of knighthood, modelled after the cross of the Knights Hospitalier. The colours are traditional Polish white and red. Cross in such colours (white on red and red on white) were often on pennants at the lances of Polish winged hussars.
See:
Today Polish Navy uses pennants with such crosses on ships being "in field" and commanded by a PN officer.
Why the cross, though ?
The cross used by marcinL is so called chevalier cross (krzyż kawalerski), popular symbol of knighthood, modelled after the cross of the Knights Hospitalier. The colours are traditional Polish white and red. Cross in such colours (white on red and red on white) were often on pennants at the lances of Polish winged hussars.
See:
Today Polish Navy uses pennants with such crosses on ships being "in field" and commanded by a PN officer.
I haven't seen any suggestions for Cascadia on here yet. I did several variations of a cockade of blue, white, and green, but was not satisfied with any of them. Instead, I found inspiration in the triangular designs of Hungary and Macedonia. I really like this version because it is an effective way to showcase the colors of the Cascadian "Doug" flag, and is very distinct from the roundels of its neighbors, the US and Canada.
The insignia should appear to be like a pennant waving in the breeze. The vertical, or hoist, side is always forward and the banner points backwards. In a horizontal position, blue is always on top (to match the "Doug" flag). When aligned vertically, the hoist side should be on top, the banner points downward, and blue is aligned to the left.
Sorry for the pixels...I'm freehanding this in MS Paint.
The insignia should appear to be like a pennant waving in the breeze. The vertical, or hoist, side is always forward and the banner points backwards. In a horizontal position, blue is always on top (to match the "Doug" flag). When aligned vertically, the hoist side should be on top, the banner points downward, and blue is aligned to the left.
Sorry for the pixels...I'm freehanding this in MS Paint.