AHC/WI: Replace Venice and Genoa with their rival maritime republics

[Ilúphatar]

IOTL, the Republics of Venice and Genoa ultimately came to dominate maritime trade in the Mediterranean Sea, becoming important regional powers whose influence far outperformed their territorial extent.

However, at other times in Italian history, other maritime republics existed that competed with Genoa and Venice for trade and commercial success. These included Pisa, Amalfi and Ragusa (the latter of which survived even Venice, but failed to match their power), as well as the quasi-independent states of Ancona and Gaeta.

Your challenge is to come up with a suitable POD, no earlier than 800 AD, that leads to the rise of one or more of these other city-states to roughly equal stature of Genoa and Venice at their height. Genoa and Venice are still allowed to become the powers they were in OTL if this fits with your chosen POD(s).

How would the growth of alternative mercantile powers in the Mediterranean affect the history of the region? How would the Byzantines fare without Genoa to support them, or Venice to take them down? Could other cities (Zara? Split?) also become 'maritime republics' in the absence of Genoese or Venetian power? Would the Crusades be severely altered or even butterflied?

Bonus points if anybody can tell me anything about Noli, apparently another maritime republic of which the internet has little to say.

Extra bonus points if anyone knows whether in OTL any of these other cities had commercial colonies and overseas trading posts as Venice, Pisa and Genoa did? Almafitan, Ragusan, Anconine 'empires'?

 

[water123]

I looked up Noli, and it is literally only like twenty or thirty miles away from Genoa. It simply was swallowed up because Genoa was far stronger and had more opportunities.

 

[Ilúphatar]

I looked up Noli, and it is literally only like twenty or thirty miles away from Genoa. It simply was swallowed up because Genoa was far stronger and had more opportunities.

So it did actually become a part of the Republic of Genoa?

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

Hmm I am actually interested in the opinions on this.

 

[Yanez de Gomera]

Pisa has the most potential and could likely have overcome Genoa as late as in the late xiii century, if only the battle of Meloria had gone differently.

Amalfi, if there is no Norman conquest of the South, could maybe have lasted longer as an independent actor, but Ancona and Ragusa are just going to be overshadowed by Venice (or Aquileia) due to their lesser access to markets: Venice is perfectly placed as anything hub between the eastern world annnd central Europe and it's not easy to beat it

 

[water123]

So it did actually become a part of the Republic of Genoa?

Probably. Really, it just seems like a rival Patrician family decided go out and start their own thing, and it kind of collapsed and was admitted back into Genoa. I'm no expert though.

 

[Ilúphatar]

Pisa has the most potential and could likely have overcome Genoa as late as in the late xiii century, if only the battle of Meloria had gone differently.

Amalfi, if there is no Norman conquest of the South, could maybe have lasted longer as an independent actor, but Ancona and Ragusa are just going to be overshadowed by Venice (or Aquileia) due to their lesser access to markets: Venice is perfectly placed as anything hub between the eastern world annnd central Europe and it's not easy to beat it

If Pisa had won at Meloria, would they have been able to win the war against Genoa, or would they have merely staved off defeat with the eventual result undetermined? If the former, what would have been the probable terms of peace by a victorious Pisa over the Genoese?

What if Ragusa or another Adriatic city were able to achieve primacy over Dalmatia before/instead of the Venetians? Could that cause the displacement of Venice as the premier Adriatic power?

 

[Shinsu]

Noli was an autonomous region within the Marquisate of Finale. The land covered about a third of the present day Ligurian region within Italy, Noli was an "independent" trade city under the Marquisate up until 1265 when the land was split into three regions, one that remained independent until 1602 when Spain took it over, one that was absorbed by Moneferet and the other that was under the protection of Milan? (It had the support of Milan for over a century but no direct proclamation of protection seemed to be issued) After 1535, Noli was allied with Genoa.

I found this that may interest you a bit: https://www.flaginstitute.org/pdfs/Roberto Breschi.pdf

 

[Yanez de Gomera]

If Pisa had won at Meloria, would they have been able to win the war against Genoa, or would they have merely staved off defeat with the eventual result undetermined? If the former, what would have been the probable terms of peace by a victorious Pisa over the Genoese?

What if Ragusa or another Adriatic city were able to achieve primacy over Dalmatia before/instead of the Venetians? Could that cause the displacement of Venice as the premier Adriatic power?

1- it depends on the manner of the victory and it's follow up, but I suppose it is reasonable that there might be a TL where the Genoese fleet gets almost destroyed and the Pisans manage to devastate Genoa's port and it's naval supplies. That said it seems to me that Genoa had better naval manpower reserves and a slightly more stable leadership (see the infamous Count Ugolino which had a very ambiguous role in Pisa's leadership).

2- I think Pisa would have wanted hegemony over Corsica and Sardinia and there would be long negotiations about the fate of the prisoners.

3- they would have clearly been quite stronger in their confrontations with Venice and could maybe have carved an Andrea of influence on the near East.
4- this seems too much however: as I said before the Venetian lagoon is too much of a good strategic location for a significant naval power not to develop there (maybe I am being too deterministic here but I don't think Zahra or Ragusa could ever take Venice's place. Aquileia and Grado however might have if Aquileia hadn't been devastated leading to the founding of Venice).

 

[Analytical Engine]

Could Pisa somehow gain dominance over Florence and/or Sienna? Could the rest of Tuscany act like the equivalent to the Venetian hinterland?

 

[Halagaz]

Ragusa was supposed to acquire a tiny merchant Empire in exchange for its assistance during the Crusade of 1444; but the failure of the crusade put an end to these ambitions.

I don't think the acquisition of a mere 2 or 3 remote ports/colonies would have propelled them to greatness. But who knows, every empire has to start somewhere. Perhaps it would have allowed them to deal with Venice and Genoa as a slightly more equal partner and make further gains from the rivalry of these two giants.

 

[Luminous]

Ragusa was supposed to acquire a tiny merchant Empire in exchange for its assistance during the Crusade of 1444; but the failure of the crusade put an end to these ambitions.

I don't think the acquisition of a mere 2 or 3 remote ports/colonies would have propelled them to greatness. But who knows, every empire has to start somewhere. Perhaps it would have allowed them to deal with Venice and Genoa as a slightly more equal partner and make further gains from the rivalry of these two giants.

Could it serve as the port of egress from the Roman Empire or some other polity in the East? All trade/information traveling overland to Ragusa and then to Italy? At the very least, if the European half of the Roman Empire remains intact, or if the Serbs/Bulgarians/others take over, a large portion of that region could flow to Ragusa, especially if there are no other nearby ports.

Be amusing that, if the Romans survive, Ragusa could eventually become the port of call for ships sailing from India and the Americas, especially for the east. maybe not as lucrative as Venice or Genoa, but it's a thought.

 

[Yanez de Gomera]

Could Pisa somehow gain dominance over Florence and/or Sienna? Could the rest of Tuscany act like the equivalent to the Venetian hinterland?

That's quite possible, but Pisa has to move quickly and knock out Volterra or even better Lucca, then she needs to alnlly with Siena to destroy Florence. A possible easy POD is that Florence gets razed to the ground in the aftermath of the battle of Montaperti: the Ghibellini factions relocates to Pisa while the Guelphs disperse in the other Tuscan communes.
It would also help if Charles d'Anjou doesn't come to Italy.

 

[Halagaz]

Could it serve as the port of egress from the Roman Empire or some other polity in the East? All trade/information traveling overland to Ragusa and then to Italy? At the very least, if the European half of the Roman Empire remains intact, or if the Serbs/Bulgarians/others take over, a large portion of that region could flow to Ragusa, especially if there are no other nearby ports.

Be amusing that, if the Romans survive, Ragusa could eventually become the port of call for ships sailing from India and the Americas, especially for the east. maybe not as lucrative as Venice or Genoa, but it's a thought.

It's an interesting thought. It's unlikely that the region will be unified by Constantinople or any other single power, but Ragusa does seem to be the natural gate into much of the Balkans. Maybe even into chunks of central Europe, with some development.

 

[Luminous]

It's an interesting thought. It's unlikely that the region will be unified by Constantinople or any other single power, but Ragusa does seem to be the natural gate into much of the Balkans. Maybe even into chunks of central Europe, with some development.

Basically my thought. Of course, Hungary would be the greatest opposition to that, especially absent Turkish invasions. But if the Balkans are fragmented with landlocked states, they can act as a neutral port of call.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Isn't the main issue with Amalfi is that it was leveled in an earthquake/tsunami in the 14th century?

 

[Planet of Hats]

Boot up Crusader Kings II and watch Pisa blob out of control all over the Mediterranean.

More seriously, I'm pretty interested in hearing opinions on this one.

 

[DarkKayder]

I think you should take into account the role that the political dinamism of the Republic of Venice played in it's ultimate achievement of hegemony over the other Merchant Republics. If for some reason Venice stagnated earlier, even if just temporarily (so as to give a contenders a chance), and, say, Pisa or Ragusa where blessed with good leadership (one with incentives that lined up with the Republics long-term benefit) you could have them develop into true regional powers.

Let's also no forget that a big part of why Pisa fell behind was the disproportionate ammount of its resources and attention that were consumed in its (more or less pointless) rivalry with Lucca. If you have them destroy or take over the latter, they should be able to focus on the maritimate conflict with Genoa.

 

[Carp]

Pisa: A strong early competitor, but Pisa suffers from divided attention. Unlike Genoa and Venice, Pisa doesn't really have geographic advantages; Venice famously had its lagoon, but even Genoa had favorable mountainous geography that shielded it somewhat from inland powers. Pisa always struggled with inland rivals, particularly its archenemy Lucca, and those rivals were excellent resources for Pisa's naval competitors. In the mid-13th century, for instance, Genoa managed to ally with Florence and Lucca against Pisa. I'm not aware of Pisa ever managing the reverse against Genoa, which really didn't have such local rivalries. A POD that best serves Pisa is one in which it is somehow shielded from this landward aggression (or just goes ham and conquers the whole Arno Basin, but then it's not really a "maritime republic"), although I'm not exactly sure what that would be. A stronger royal/imperial power that could keep a firmer hand on Tuscany might be helpful, but a POD which does that might subsequently arrest or retard the growth of the maritime communes in general, including Pisa.

Amalfi: The unlikeliest of heroes. These guys were doing business with the Muslims before it was cool, and were quite possibly the only Christian European state (other than the Byzantines) minting gold currency for some time because of their commercial contacts in North Africa. Unfortunately, I don't have much hope for these guys long-term. Amalfi, squeezed between the mountains and the sea, is somewhat difficult to attack, but it doesn't even have a very good port (which you'd think would be rather important for a maritime commune). Its brief moment in the sun probably has to do with the salutary political conditions of being a loose Byzantine client in a region full of weak, divided Lombard and Italo-Greek statelets, among which it could leverage its wealth and geography to maintain its independence. The fact that it became a trading center at all may have something to do with the fact that the country there is so bad for anything else; you pretty much have to turn to the sea. Ultimately Amalfi is probably doomed to fall and be replaced in importance by Naples, which actually has a harbor worth mentioning. You can extend its golden age by a bit, perhaps, by keeping the political situation in the region in stasis, but nothing lasts forever and Amalfi is going to end up overwhelmed by its competitors.

Ragusa: My knowledge of Ragusa is pretty limited and much later than my usual area of interest, so I won't comment.

Ancona: Ancona has a Venice problem. It's not that there's anything really terrible about Ancona, it's just that Venice is in such a great spot and with so many advantages that it's difficult for anyone else in the Adriatic to shine. Given a sufficiently brutal and long-lasting Venice-screw I think you could pull this off. It would probably also help to keep it out of the hands of the Pope, whose temporal government through much of the Middle Ages and beyond was rather lackluster. In the 12th century Ancona was under significant Byzantine influence, to the point where it was the disembarkation point for Byzantine soldiers invading Norman Sicily in the 1155-6 war; if the Byzantines win that war and re-assert control in southern Italy in a big way, they control the entrance to the Adriatic (on both sides) and are potentially in a position to punish Venice and reward Ancona. That's probably the latest POD I can imagine in which Ancona goes big.

Gaeta: Gaeta has a nice defensible location, but there's not much in that location - not like Venice and its islands or Genoa and its cozy Ligurian strip. I think Gaeta is likely to be eclipsed by Naples, just like Amalfi, and indeed it was subject to Naples before political disintegration there made places like Gaeta, Amalfi, and Sorrento strike out on their own. Not much to say here, really; I can see it possibly being an alt-Amalfi if Amalfi never arises for some reason.

Noli: Probably destined to be in Genoa's shadow. Might be a reasonable alt-Genoa given a sufficient Genoa-screw. I'm afraid I don't know much about it.

Naples isn't in the poll but really deserves a mention here. Early medieval Naples was never much of a trading port, but it's hard to see why except perhaps that they had a pretty decent agricultural hinterland which may have seemed more worthwhile than trying to out-trade Amalfi. Find a way for Naples to re-assert its control over its outlying tributaries Amalfi, Sorrento, and Gaeta - or never lose control of them in the first place - such that Amalfi never rises, and perhaps Naples will fill Amalfi's place. It might even be better at it, given its much better natural harbor, although Naples' geography is no better defensively than Pisa and it's possible a landward rival (in Capua, for instance) would arise to plague Naples in the same way. At the very least, however, I think a Neapolitan golden age in the manner of Pisa is quite plausible.

 

[Bee]

Ragusa is well situated but had a tiny population compared to the others. It would need to have a population influx, and to acquire enough surrounding territory to support the increased numbers.

Gaeta and Amalfi: both had some dangerous neighbors. For either of them to have long term success, the Norman conquest of South Italy (which was not inevitable) can't happen.