AHC: Whatever Rudolf Hess was Attempting to do Succeeds

[Ungern-Sternberg]

Was Hess truly a crazy person, or at least duped into taking his flight by Allied intelligence?
Or was he part of a secret plan that genuinely did involve members of the British government, who simply dropped the ball? Perhaps their really was a group waiting for him in the Dungavel house, but they had to disavow any knowledge of a plan when he was caught.

• Suppose he succeeds. What changes happen within the British government, if any?
• What does a 1941 white peace look like? What demands would the British have regarding France and Poland?
• Does Japan reconsider the situation, and call off plans to attack Pearl Harbor?
• Is Iran off the hook now, or will they be used to open up a new front against the Soviets?

 

[Alanith]

Was Hess truly a crazy person, or at least duped into taking his flight by Allied intelligence?
Or was he part of a secret plan that genuinely did involve members of the British government, who simply dropped the ball? Perhaps their really was a group waiting for him in the Dungavel house, but they had to disavow any knowledge of a plan when he was caught.

• Suppose he succeeds. What changes happen within the British government, if any?
• What does a 1941 white peace look like? What demands would the British have regarding France and Poland?
• Does Japan reconsider the situation, and call off plans to attack Pearl Harbor?
• Is Iran off the hook now, or will they be used to open up a new front against the Soviets?

Hess was crazier then the latest Warframe plot twist.

 

[Lalli]

Not way that UK is going make peace with Hitler. They knew that they can't trust to him. He was already violated every treaty where was his name.

 

[ivanotter]

OK, Saturday - so let us get an absolutely crazy conspiracy going:

HEYDRICH is the key man here. As head of Interpol he is having a great many international contacts. Heydrich is also realizing that the real enemy is USSR, not Britain.

Heydrich talks to Goering and bluntly telling him that he can become the next chancellor or he can die right now. Although Goering is not a coward, he can see that Heydrich has got too big a power-base - SS, SD German navy and Abwehr and a few generals thrown for good measure. All being sufficiently scared of him.

Goering gives in and a mini coup rolls off:

Himmler is having a bad accident.
Hitler is having a stroke - nicely engineered by the SS doctors. Hitler is paraded once in a while as the 'father of the revolution' but Goering is now told what to do.

and finally - Hess is off to see Churchill.

Hess is telling Churchill that France will be having its freedom back but will be in a union together with Germany and Italy - proto-EU

… and that Churchill can be a part of the crusade against communism - just like Churchill wanted the intervention from 1917 to 1920 in the Russian civil war.

… and they all lived happily thereafter.

Wonderful Tom Clancy book - but with Heydrich in the mix? don't discount it too fast.

LOL

 

[A Piece of History]

Can I just remind everyone that Rudolf Hess was doing this on his own accord and not under orders from Hitler or anyone else in the Nazi government? Sure, Hess was Deputy Fuhrer, but he represented no one but himself since Hitler never gave him permission to undertake this insane mission. Any peace Hess struck would not be recognized by Hitler's government.

Was Hess truly a crazy person

Where do I begin?

An aide once caught him trying to levitate a chair off one leg with his mind

He believed in stuff like clairvoyance and astrology

He was a severe hypochondriac to the point of asking his captors in Britain for medicines for ailments afflicting the kidneys, colon, gall bladder, bowels and heart. When he used to have dinners with Hitler at the Berghof, he brought his own meal to the dinners, claiming it was 'biologically dynamic'. Hitler disliked this practise and so he stopped having dinners with Hess.

 

[Ungern-Sternberg]

OK, Saturday - so let us get an absolutely crazy conspiracy going:

HEYDRICH is the key man here. As head of Interpol he is having a great many international contacts. Heydrich is also realizing that the real enemy is USSR, not Britain.

Heydrich talks to Goering and bluntly telling him that he can become the next chancellor or he can die right now. Although Goering is not a coward, he can see that Heydrich has got too big a power-base - SS, SD German navy and Abwehr and a few generals thrown for good measure. All being sufficiently scared of him.

I hadn't even considered that! (SPOILER ALERT) This is exactly what he tries to do in the Man in the High Castle TV show, minus Goering.
What would a Goering/Heidrich administration look like? I love the detail about his interpol connections, perhaps these could be used to influence other countries. This could make for a very interesting timeline.

 

[Ungern-Sternberg]

An aide once caught him trying to levitate a chair off one leg with his mind

Today I wanted to change the channel, but the
remote was on top of the coffee table. I was all
comfortable, with my bowl of biologically dynamic
cereal in my lap, so I really didn’t want to get up.

I tried using the Force to make the remote
levitate to me, even though I’ve tried it a million
times before and it’s never worked once. Today I
tried for about fifteen minutes and concentrated
really hard, but no luck. I just wish I’d
known that Adolf was standing right behind me
the whole time.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Well, I was going to engage with this but it appears there is a new "groupthink consensus" on Hess here, and I really can't be arsed

 

[Ungern-Sternberg]

Well, I was going to engage with this but it appears there is a new "groupthink consensus" on Hess here, and I really can't be arsed

Well what do you think?

 

[Seandineen]

Perhaps a commitment to international resettlement. Germany is compensated with the Sudetenland, Benes will be pacified with a piece of poland.

 

[ivanotter]

I have to admit: I found great joy in spinning this conspiracy - LOL.

On that note: Wiki on Interpol: "From 1938 to 1945, the presidents of the ICPC included Otto Steinhäusl, Reinhard Heydrich, Arthur Nebe, and Ernst Kaltenbrunner" All SS officers.

That Hess was a bit 'left- field' is probably testified in many ways. Without going into the great many conspiracy theories, there are a few points worth mentioning I think.

First of all, Hess planned his trip rather well. Commandeering a special Me-110 with long-distance tanks, etc.

But let us turn to the realities:

After Hess flew off into the blue yonder, Hitler declared him insane. Why: because Hess was too close to the leadership after all and his trip might have been seen as sanctioned. Hitler simply HAD TO declare him crazy.

Hitler also had a lot of talk with Mussolini, convincing him that it was surely not sanctioned.

Stalin - apparently - believed that Hitler was trying to make peace with UK prior to invading USSR. That belief was there up until 1944 (Wiki). I think it was a part of the 'enablers' of the cold war.

If Stalin really still believed that it could have been sanctioned by Hitler, why then trust UK/US after the war? Churchill was one of the proponents of intervention in the Russian revolution after all.

If Hess was only slightly eccentric (And the best part of the inner circle was a bit … odd), then we may look at the inner circle for some inspiration to this flight.

'Follow the money' is a good axiom, which in this instance might be 'follow the power'.

Who could benefit? Himmler and Goering may not have liked Hess a lot. And this could have been a way of getting rid of him and embarrassing Hitler in the process. On that note: How could Hess just start doing flying lessons, commandeering aircraft, making alterations, etc etc without anybody noticing? Surely Goering would have known what would happen to any of his aircraft? Heydrich is still lurking somewhere.

Where is Borman in this?

Who in the inner circle thought that attacking USSR was a bad idea and therefore looking at Germany minus Hitler?

SS and the UK upper class surely had a lot of interaction prior to the war. These connections were still in place.

But just as telling: I believe that SS/Abwehr/wehrmacht also had a lot of connections with USSR (Rapallo must have made this possible).

So, a coup better planned and executed by a set of people with real power was possible. … and Hitler feared exactly that this was the start of a coup! Hitler might have been a bit paranoid about coup attempts, but he was alive because he could 'sniff' these things out.

In essence: was Hess a pawn in a greater game?

It also leaves the question: what if he had succeeded?

 

[Alanith]

Not so sure about the conspiracy aspects, but I will note that Hess received training as a pilot in WW1, but saw no service in the role. He also apparently kept up his flying skills well into the 30's, owning a couple monoplanes at one point. Heck, he won an Air race in 1934! The whole training thing was probably just getting used to a two engine design.

 

[Ramontxo]

Today I wanted to change the channel, but the
remote was on top of the coffee table. I was all
comfortable, with my bowl of biologically dynamic
cereal in my lap, so I really didn’t want to get up.

I tried using the Force to make the remote
levitate to me, even though I’ve tried it a million
times before and it’s never worked once. Today I
tried for about fifteen minutes and concentrated
really hard, but no luck. I just wish I’d
known that Adolf was standing right behind me
the whole time.

View attachment 475963

You are lucky also on your biological dinamic food being rather lazy or so much concentration would...

 

[TonyA]

You are lucky also on your biological dinamic food being rather lazy or so much concentration would...

Having so much trouble with concentration...maybe you need to go to "Concentration Camp" with the other boys and girls...

 

[Ramontxo]

I am sure they are a lot on "Biological Dinamic" foods also there. On the other hand I myself found yesterday beers Dinamic enough for me this morning no need for more help on that field...