AHC: Give the Nazis a Coherent Economic Policy

[WhiteDragon25]

Let's be clear: we all know that the Nazis sucked at economics. The most charitable thing you could say about their 'economic' policy was that it was a masterfully-crafted Ponzi scheme designed to patch up the German economy just enough to fool everybody that they had something going, while bilking people and businesses of their money so they could fund their unsustainable war-machine and satisfy their murder-boner for killing Jews.

But by any realistic estimation, however, the German economy would've most likely collapsed under its own weight by 1942 at the latest had the Nazis not started WW2 when they did, as they would've been forced to pay back the money they got from their creditors when their MEFO Bill scam finally came due, only to default on all their debts as they spent it all on their shiny new panzer toys.

To say that Nazism as an ideology is inherently self-destructive would be an understatement, leaving aside the xenophobia and the genocide and the warmongering: what screwed the Nazis over the most was probably their complete lack of understanding of economics; hell, Hitler considered it to be an entirely secondary concern to his fanciful dreams of Lebensraum, and when given the choice between the economic proposals of Hjalmar Schacht verses Hermann Goering, he chose the latter specifically because Goering had no knowledge of economics whatsoever.

Needless to say, that didn't end well for them.

But, suppose for a moment, that the Nazis actually bothered to take the time to craft a coherent economic platform that wasn't just "whatever the hell the Fuhrer is in the mood for today" - after all, their supposed chief ideological enemy, the Communists, built their entire philosophy around economics, and (flawed it may have been in a lot of assumptions), it was at least internally consistent with itself, which is more than one can say for the Nazis on... well, anything. What, exactly, would it look like, and can they build one that's sustainable long-term while still being able to maintain their gargantuan rearmament program in time to kick off WW2?

Is it at all possible for the Nazis to have a coherent economic policy that won't crash and burn within a decade, or are they just doomed to be the butt of running jokes regarding economics (as they should be)?

 

[EnvarKadri]

Why would they have internal consistency when the only real conviction was the supremacy of "Das Deutche Volk" and its entitlement of all of europes "clay". War wasnt a distraction from their "real problems", it was the only thing they really wanted to do, its a mean on it self.

 

[toolbox11742]

Let's be clear: we all know that the Nazis sucked at economics. The most charitable thing you could say about their 'economic' policy was that it was a masterfully-crafted Ponzi scheme designed to patch up the German economy just enough to fool everybody that they had something going, while bilking people and businesses of their money so they could fund their unsustainable war-machine and satisfy their murder-boner for killing Jews.

But by any realistic estimation, however, the German economy would've most likely collapsed under its own weight by 1942 at the latest had the Nazis not started WW2 when they did, as they would've been forced to pay back the money they got from their creditors when their MEFO Bill scam finally came due, only to default on all their debts as they spent it all on their shiny new panzer toys.

To say that Nazism as an ideology is inherently self-destructive would be an understatement, leaving aside the xenophobia and the genocide and the warmongering: what screwed the Nazis over the most was probably their complete lack of understanding of economics; hell, Hitler considered it to be an entirely secondary concern to his fanciful dreams of Lebensraum, and when given the choice between the economic proposals of Hjalmar Schacht verses Hermann Goering, he chose the latter specifically because Goering had no knowledge of economics whatsoever.

Needless to say, that didn't end well for them.

But, suppose for a moment, that the Nazis actually bothered to take the time to craft a coherent economic platform that wasn't just "whatever the hell the Fuhrer is in the mood for today" - after all, their supposed chief ideological enemy, the Communists, built their entire philosophy around economics, and (flawed it may have been in a lot of assumptions), it was at least internally consistent with itself, which is more than one can say for the Nazis on... well, anything. What, exactly, would it look like, and can they build one that's sustainable long-term while still being able to maintain their gargantuan rearmament program in time to kick off WW2?

Is it at all possible for the Nazis to have a coherent economic policy that won't crash and burn within a decade, or are they just doomed to be the butt of running jokes regarding economics (as they should be)?

First and foremost Goring cannot be the defacto economic minister; he was a dangerous combination of unqualified and uninterested in the technical aspects of running an economy. You have to see their economic short comings as both ideological and lack of functional competence

Soviet Economic policy was more insane than even German policy, and just as geared to an oversized military and internal killing, yet it held on flaws, poverty, famine and all till 1991 (they didn't even technically default on their debt till the mid 90s)

If some sort of semi competent person is in charge of the economy from 1936 on; and say they have their fill after taking Bohemia; or Poland just concedes Danzig and the war doesn't happen; they could hang on ugly for some time if the Russians are any example; quality of life would decline for the average German, but that government like the Soviets would have no problem using violence to maintain order/price controls/work place appearance etc

 

[Thomas1195]

Soviet Economic policy was more insane than even German policy, and just as geared to an oversized military and internal killing, yet it held on flaws, poverty, famine and all till 1991 (they didn't even technically default on their debt till the mid 90s)

It sits on a huge chunk of natural resources. The same cannot be said with Germany.

 

[Zwinglian]

Have Hitler choke on some bread while in Prison, Strasser would become the new leader of the NSDAP and the Nazis would have a coherent anti capitalist economic policy

 

[M79]

A) Keep Hjalmar Schacht

B) Promote unified research and joint projects earlier [perhaps a la ARPA?]

C) Promote synthetics and 'Domestic' alloy use wherever possible

D) Give the reasearchers their own communities away from major cities

E) Relocate key industries underground before the war

F) Coordinate all economic policies via one office with some limited level of cooperation among departments being promoted

G) Organize and redevelop transportation links like the high-speed Reichsbahn trains earlier

 

[marathag]

C) Promote synthetics and 'Domestic' alloy use wherever possible

Still runs into the Autarky problem and looking down on Trade, that goes back on Schacht

 

[karatachi]

Have the quack end up killing the Führer.

 

[jerseyguy]

A) Keep Hjalmar Schacht

B) Promote unified research and joint projects earlier [perhaps a la ARPA?]

C) Promote synthetics and 'Domestic' alloy use wherever possible

D) Give the reasearchers their own communities away from major cities

E) Relocate key industries underground before the war

F) Coordinate all economic policies via one office with some limited level of cooperation among departments being promoted

G) Organize and redevelop transportation links like the high-speed Reichsbahn trains earlier

Monopoly capitalism in Germany played a large role in the rise of fascism. In the US the progressive era had created strong, well enforced anti-trust legislation that broke up monopolies and cartels in the railroads, for example. "Free enterprise" in the US means anyone should be free to enter and exit the market.

In Germany, there was no serious anti-trust law pre-1945. A cartel agreement that allowed companies to fix prices, divide markets, and coordinate research and development wouldn't be illegal, it could be ratified before a judge. IG Farben is the prototypical example, starting as a cartel of 5 smaller companies, then merging into one corporation with several subsidiaries and a monopoly on chemicals and related industries in Germany. They gave a 400,000 Reichsmark donation to the Nazis on the same day as the Reichstag fire, and purged their jewish employees to stay in the government's good graces.

Initially they feared the instability caused by the rise of fascism, but eventually they found an opportunity to profit. IG Farben would be the only supplier of chemicals for rearmament, so it had a vested interest in monopoly profit from re-armament and wars of territorial conquest. Where German armies went, IG Farben followed, buying up local companies and merging with competitors.

This is a summary of Antitrust and Democracy: A Case Study from German Fascism