AHC: Destroy a major religion

[modelcitizen]

In this scenario (which is almost ASB anyway) probably Judaism won't be the only major religion that ends up screwed.

Orthodox chruch, you're thinking?

 

[Dorozhand]

and/or if the religion becomes as marginalised as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

"Hello, do you have a moment to talk about Muhammad?"

 

[psychic]

No, it couldn't.

But of course, some Hindus (my mother, for example) see Buddhists as just slightly weird Hindus with one fewer god.

Ganesha

Yeah I consider Buddhism to be something like Protestant Hindusim.

 

[Alex1guy]

Hitler wins the war and Judaism is ended as a religion?

That wasn't too hard

Actually with the OP saying that the practicing faith needs falls below 10 million to be counted as "destroyed" this could very well work fit. What was the Jewish population of the USA, Canada and Britain during the war? I'm certain it was well below this. If we assume the Nazi's knock out the USSR or drive them back enough (no don't spear me, put that down!) to enact the Holocaust to a greater extent would this be enough?

 

[Orko]

Actually with the OP saying that the practicing faith needs falls below 10 million to be counted as "destroyed" this could very well work fit. What was the Jewish population of the USA, Canada and Britain during the war? I'm certain it was well below this. If we assume the Nazi's knock out the USSR or drive them back enough (no don't spear me, put that down!) to enact the Holocaust to a greater extent would this be enough?

There are Jews outside Europe and North America, you know.

 

[Dorozhand]

Yeah I consider Buddhism to be something like Protestant Hindusim.

I think Hinduism and Buddhism are actually a really close analogy to Judaism and Christianity.

 

[Minchandre]

There are Jews outside Europe and North America, you know.

Not that many. Before Israel, something like 90% of Jews lived in North America and Europe.

 

[Rex Mundi]

Guys, Judaism isn't a major religion.

 

[Just a Rube]

Guys, Judaism isn't a major religion.

OP listed it as one.

And it's really the only one small enough in 1750 to be conceivably reduced that small, barring e.g. asteroid strike.

 

[Sian]

Guys, Judaism isn't a major religion.

Prehaps not by size, but by influence it could certainly be argued to be one, because it have a disappopiate ammount of strong political entries, specially within American Politics.

 

[Flocculencio]

No, it couldn't.

I think it's tough to understand sometimes just how deep Hinduism's roots are in the subcontinent. Hinduism, because it is not an organized religion in the Abrahamic sense, is not something that can be easily attacked. It is multi-faced, multi-faceted. It's a telling sign that both Muslims and Christians in the subcontinent (Christians more so than Muslims) adapted their faiths to slot into the Hindu caste system and Hindu society. That's the cultural argument.

Not only that, but historically and politically, there was never a time when it would have been feasible for Muslim or Christian powers to try to stamp out Hinduism without provoking a massive backlash and losing control of the subcontinent.

The late Mughals tried, not even that strongly (simply higher tax rates for Hindus, mainly) and provoked a Hindu nationalist rebellion (the Marathas) which led to the loss of their effective power.

The British were smart enough to never make any strong efforts to proselytize - they let missionaries in (as did the Portuguese and French) but did not provide strong support or actively work against Hinduism. The one exception (their campaign against suttee) was backed by prominent Hindus as a Hindu reform movement, not a alternate path of faith. If the British every tried to replace Hinduism, they'd face such strong resistance India would simply no longer belong to them.

In short, Hinduism ain't going anywhere. The best chance to get rid of it is pre-modern, in the post-Maurya phase, if you avoid a revival and keep Buddhism as the main Indian faith. But of course, some Hindus (my mother, for example) see Buddhists as just slightly weird Hindus with one fewer god.

Maybe, maybe, maybe if Muslims keep control of the subcontinent for another 400, 500 years (if they can). Maybe. But it's worth noting that Bangladesh is still 10% Hindu today, and Pakistan was 15% Hindu in 1951, after the partition.

Cheers,
Ganesha

Re Buddhism as the main Indian faith- Hinduism would still have been there. Even during that period basically you had Buddhism as the 'high' religion, patronised by the state, the focus of philosophy etc. At ground level the actual people would still have been praying to their local deities, carrying out essentially Hindu rituals. An analogy would be Buddhism and Shintoism in Japan where the actual religious observances of daily life tend to be Shinto while major events such as weddings or funerals tend to be Buddhist.

What happened in the Hindu resurgence was merely the philosophical development of forms of Hinduism as a 'high' religion with Brahmins regaining patornage from royalty and so forth as opposed to the Buddhist clergy.

 

[Roger II]

Communist takeover of Iraq and Iran in the 50's which ends the Shiite part of Islam.

You'd still have Lebanese and Syrian and Yemeni Shia, plus the various Ismaili communities in India and Pakistan. Maybe some enclaves in Turkey and the Balkans; I don't know as much there.

 

[Ganesha]

Re Buddhism as the main Indian faith- Hinduism would still have been there. Even during that period basically you had Buddhism as the 'high' religion, patronised by the state, the focus of philosophy etc. At ground level the actual people would still have been praying to their local deities, carrying out essentially Hindu rituals. An analogy would be Buddhism and Shintoism in Japan where the actual religious observances of daily life tend to be Shinto while major events such as weddings or funerals tend to be Buddhist.

What happened in the Hindu resurgence was merely the philosophical development of forms of Hinduism as a 'high' religion with Brahmins regaining patronage from royalty and so forth as opposed to the Buddhist clergy.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Any good books/sources on that whole dynamic?

Cheers,
Ganesha

 

[Flocculencio]

Interesting, I didn't know that. Any good books/sources on that whole dynamic?

Cheers,
Ganesha

Nothing specific I can remember off the top of my head, sorry. Finding good consensed sources for India is always a challenge.

 

[Ganesha]

Nothing specific I can remember off the top of my head, sorry. Finding good consensed sources for India is always a challenge.

I've run into that problem too. For years I've wanted to learn about the long-term histories of the South Indian kingdoms (Cholas, Pandyas, etc) but have never found a good book on the matter.

Cheers,
Ganesha

 

[Emperor Julian]

With a POD in the Eighteenth Century, we can create a more developed India, which becomes a major player in the Cold War a la China, and becomes a nuclear player. Nuclear war occurs, and India gets turned into a radioactive wasteland, destroying Hinduism.

 

[Badshah]

I've run into that problem too. For years I've wanted to learn about the long-term histories of the South Indian kingdoms (Cholas, Pandyas, etc) but have never found a good book on the matter.

Cheers,
Ganesha

John Keay's India is pretty good. I mean, it's not absolutely detailed, but it's very informative and has a whole chapter on the Cholas, and iirc has Sections on the Pandyas, Cheras, etc.

 

[Ganesha]

John Keay's India is pretty good. I mean, it's not absolutely detailed, but it's very informative and has a whole chapter on the Cholas, and iirc has Sections on the Pandyas, Cheras, etc.

It definitely seems to be a top-notch general history book, but I was thinking more specifically. Thanks though.

Cheers,
Ganesha

 

[Dahveed323]

Guys, Judaism isn't a major religion.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Tell that to the nobel prize committee (0.2% of world population - over 20% of prize winners) ... tell that to the UN (only the Jewish State gets absurdly singled out for special line-item condemnation ... while Syria, Sudan, Iran, etc get covered by their buddies) ... tell that to Mark Twain ("The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then . . . passed away. The Greek and the Roman followed. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts. … All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality? ... ") ...

This list goes on ...

 

[Super Cicero]

Communist takeover of Iraq and Iran in the 50's which ends the Shiite part of Islam.

I don't see why people on this thread are assuming that a communist takeover of a country would "end" practice of that country's major religion. Catholicism seems pretty strong in Poland today to me, despite over 4 decades of communist rule - the same with Orthodoxy in Romania and Russia.