AHC: Carrying a sword still considered acceptable in western world

[LongVin]

For most of European history it was considered completely normal and indeed a right for the upper class segment of the population to carry a sword. This lasted into the 19th century where the sword was generally replaced by the cane(occasionally the sword cane) to be used for self defense. And, even up to WW1 all officers as part of their standard kit were issued a sword.

How would it be possible at least in most western countries for it to be considered socially acceptable even commonplace for men to continue carry swords at least in formal settings, but better yet in all settings.

 

[LongVin]

bump any thoughts?

 

[IndefatigableRN]

Hmm, I think it would be pretty cool

But it would also be quite dangerous (I assumed you were talking about real swords and not fake or blunted ones).

 

[Kitiem3000]

If the 19th century was a bit more lawless, more people would stay in the habit of carrying weapons. Most nations had civilian militia's who were required to be armed so the concept of armed civilians wasn't that strange.

I don't know about the other countries in Europe, but the Dutch constitution once had a provision similar to the American second amendment. Only it wasn't a right, but a duty.

Artikel 203. Het dragen der wapenen tot handhaving der onafhankelijkheid van den Staat en de beveiliging van deszelfs grondgebied blijft, overeenkomstig 's Lands oude gewoonte, den geest van de Pacificatie van Gent, en de grondbeginselen bij de Unie van Utrecht aangenomen, een der eerste pligten van alle ingezetenen van het Rijk.

Article 203
The carrying of weapons for keeping the independence of the state en the safekeeping of once own territory is, according to tradition, the spirit of the pacification of Gent, and the base principles of the Union of Utrecht, one of the first duties of all inhabitants of the Realm.

With less efficient police forces (scary, considering the crap we had to deal with in the 19th century) more people would keep the habit of arming themselves. Once the time comes instead of throwing article 203 out it could be modified to keep bladed weapons for self protection while projectile weapons are kept exclusively for the police and military.

 

[TheScottishMongol]

Oooh, that'd be interesting. A world where guns are only issued to members of the military and maybe police. Civilians would be allowed to carry axe, sword, spear, or bow wherever they want for self defense. It would certainly have an impact on crime, and the debate over the right to bear arms would be very different.

 

[mrmandias]

There might be ways to make swords part of men's formal wear. You probably need more bleed between aristocratic status, citizenship, and business to make that happen.

I wonder if you could get something like benefit of clergy, where anyone who could read could claim the privilege, but instead benefit of nobility, where anyone who carried a sword could claim the privilege. So everybody starts carrying swords.

Or you could have an early modern country that managed the rise of the middle class by gradual expansions of the aristocracy, culminating in some kind of homegrown idiosyncratic democracy movement in the 19th C. that demands nobilization for the whole people. It would be weird, but couple it with a strong blood-and-soil nationalism (We are the noble people, the natural aristocrats of the world!), it could be plausible. And wearing swords would be one of the victorious movement's visible acts of self-assertion, like American politicians wearing an American flag pin.

 

[juanml82]

Well, depending on the country, there might not be laws forbidding the use of crossbows or, at least, different types of knives.

As for knives, which are, after all, very short swords, I don't think it's "unacceptable" to carry them hidden - it's more of an extravaganza. Since swords are visible, the POD may need to be a fashion POD? Something that makes an actual sword to be looked as a luxury accessory for upper classes. I don't think it would last as a fashion, though.

And for it to be practical, people would need to cut other people in the streets, so they would be living in a rather crappy world. And while it can, and should, escalate into carrying firearms, in the rather short ranges of city fights, a well used sword might be more dangerous than a firearm.

 

[Kitiem3000]

You would probably also see some more cross-over weapons between swords and guns, like throwing knives. Or my new personal favourite, a bladed boomerang.
I think that with a good deal of Europe carrying blades you should see industry taking an interest. Imagine how swords would've come out if they kept being developed at the same pace with handguns. Ultralight, Edge retention, maybe a semi-solid handle which moulds to your grip?
I wonder if it would go coupled with advances in body armour?

It doesn't need to be practical now, it just had to have been practical for long enough that it would've passed from necessity to fashion.

 

[LongVin]

Hmm, I think it would be pretty cool

But it would also be quite dangerous (I assumed you were talking about real swords and not fake or blunted ones).

I would think most likely real swords, unless it was deemed only acceptable to wear your sword in a formal setting such as at a wedding.

 

[LongVin]

There might be ways to make swords part of men's formal wear. You probably need more bleed between aristocratic status, citizenship, and business to make that happen.

I wonder if you could get something like benefit of clergy, where anyone who could read could claim the privilege, but instead benefit of nobility, where anyone who carried a sword could claim the privilege. So everybody starts carrying swords.

Or you could have an early modern country that managed the rise of the middle class by gradual expansions of the aristocracy, culminating in some kind of homegrown idiosyncratic democracy movement in the 19th C. that demands nobilization for the whole people. It would be weird, but couple it with a strong blood-and-soil nationalism (We are the noble people, the natural aristocrats of the world!), it could be plausible. And wearing swords would be one of the victorious movement's visible acts of self-assertion, like American politicians wearing an American flag pin.

I think something like this would probably need to be vital. A blending of the aristocracy and the up and coming rich industrialists and merchants could probably work.

Especially when you think about how a lot of rather wealthy people tried to buy noble titles.

 

[AdA]

I do, on a number of occasions. In Portugal, and many countries, a sword is still part of an Army Officer ceremonial dress. In Portugal this means real swords, even if the modern blades are not sharpened nor tempered to full combat standards. In some countries they have moved to lighter, purely decorative swords.

 

[JimTheB]

They don't need to be real swords, do they? OK, so have a revival of New Romantic music and styles so every tween (girls especially) wants to look like Adam Ant and totes a plastic cutlass.

 

[LongVin]

They don't need to be real swords, do they? OK, so have a revival of New Romantic music and styles so every tween (girls especially) wants to look like Adam Ant and totes a plastic cutlass.

That just sent a chill down my spine. lol.

 

[GrandpaTanaka]

A Dirk is sometimes worn as part of Highland Scottish formal wear. It is probably the most acceptable way to wear a "sword" today, other than some sort of historical renactment.

Of course, a Dirk isn't really a sword. It would be cool if the Highland variety of black-tie incorporated a broadsword in addition to the dirk and Sgian-dubh, but that is not particularly practical.

In our modern world swords are considered too dangerous to be worn ceremonially, but not effective enough to be worn as a weapon (compared to guns).

 

[ivanotter]

Interesting. Up until the 1960's the Swedish police were armed with swords, not guns.

Yes, the Scottish habit of dressing up with a knife in the socks is a traditional one. Presumable not ankle socks as for formal wear, but those long wollen one's we had for school. The long grey one's for winter which gave a rash in the knee bend.

However, it does get unpractical, I think.

There would have to be new rules for how to behave in a throng of peole in the subway. Swords and knifes and things will get in the way.

When you are attending a business meeting, do you leave the sword in the reception area? or do you sit with the cursed thing around the conference table?

Limits on blade size? Is it OK to drift along with a claymore?

Can you use it for other things (besides chopping down criminals, of course)? opening the champagne at the restaurant? Pizza? that steak from the steak house - the tough one?

Fashion will immediately come into play: designer swords? diamond crusted handles? gold blades for the "Kardashian special"

Must it be a sword? Cutlass, sabre, those japanese one's?

Insofar as we should not be sexists, we must have some for the ladies as well.

I am sure Oprah would look great with a sword strapped around her (ample) waist. It would be colour coded of course, matching her shoes.

From what age should this happen? I can see the entire first family outfitted with matching swords in different sizes.

We would all have to attend some fencing schools I should think.

Would we have recreational swords? Going to the beach in a swimsuit and broadsword is at best unpractical. How would it be attached to my "mankini"

Now, playing baseball and still having this one strapped to my hip might just get people confused. Instead of whacking the ball with the bat, someone is bound to draw the claymore and slice the ball in half.

A Marathon with an additional 10 pounds of weight is simply unfair.

Tour de France will be different.

Serena Williams would be scary. She is scary enough as it is.

If any good NYPD cop should have more hardware hanging from the belt, they must be issued suspenders. Or having the sword strapped to the back like the action heroes in the movies my daughter likes to watch.

<<<Just in jest! I am all for it as can be seen, as long as we can iron out the kinks!>>>

Ivan

 

[Color-Copycat]

More Western converts to Sikhism?

 

[Paul V McNutt]

I could see many more drunken arguments becoming deadly. I also more arguments at airport security.

 

[ivanotter]

It would be difficult to put in the overhead locker:

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

More Western converts to Sikhism?

You beat me to it. Or maybe a branch of Christianity could militarize in a way similar to Sikhism - a "Christian knighthood" modeled on the medieval orders, in which carrying a sword is a sign of visible piety. I'm not sure what it would take to make such an organization popular, though.

 

[Simreeve]

It's for decapitating zombies, of course...