AHC: Carrying a sword still considered acceptable in western world

[David S Poepoe]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned how much more difficult it would be to get in and out of cars wearing a sword. Of course one could simply take it off and place it in the back seat or trunk, but what about when getting into those two door sports cars?

 

[ivanotter]

maybe some pocket of sorts on the side of the car? Like they had for the rifles on the horses in those movies I liked to watch as a kid?

The Maserati would look great with a pocket for the claymore.

On the other hand, would there be any limits on how many swords you may carry?

I can se one of those Scottish one's with knifes in the socks, claymore at the side, a daggar, a stilletto as well and then a folding knife and the razor-thing and maybe the big army knife to top it all, the one with the compass in the handle and the sewing kit.

Maybe there would be a market for folding swords, like what they have for the white cane? Those are really rigid when unfolded.

I would still like to see Oprah dressed up with a sword.

My favourite would still be to see the Kardashians.

Ivan

 

[ivanotter]

even better:

The mon's spade weapon:

But why limit ourselves to blades only? These I woud love to carry to a meeting with the bank manager:

Ivan

 

[Opunium]

It would be difficult to put in the overhead locker:

Actually it is fake, research has shown this sword was made in the 16th or 17th century. So not Wallace's own sword.

 

[King Thomas]

If the Vikings took over America and get independence when the sword was still the main weapon, then a right to bear swords could find it's way into the US constitution.

 

[BELFAST]

swords in Northern ireland 21013

Swords are often carried in Northern Ireland in Orange order marches to the present day.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/06/19/the-town-they-love-so-well/

 

[CalBear]

Pretty difficult to manage, at least universally. For one thing, guns replaced edged weapons starting in the early 1800s, which would make a post 1900 POD close to impossible.

In The U.S., post Civil War I would judge it utterly impossible. France, close to utterly impossible. Germany maintained dueling fraternities (aka: Burschenschaft) to this day, so something is possible there, say due to some sort of regulation regarding firearms post WW I or WW II.

Britain is an interesting case, where firearms were generally available, even commonplace, up until the turn of the Century (the U.S. 2nd Amendment is based on English Common Law), to the point that in 1870 the Parliament passes a gun licensing law as a revenue measure, followed by a series of laws restricting pistols (weapons with a barrel of 9"or less) in 1903. Of course today, the UK is not only one of the most restrictive states on firearms but also on edged weapons down to table knife length, so it is hard to see it happening there either.

 

[CalBear]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned how much more difficult it would be to get in and out of cars wearing a sword. Of course one could simply take it off and place it in the back seat or trunk, but what about when getting into those two door sports cars?

Use a rack like the PD in the U.S. use for shotguns.

 

[Cymraeg]

It would certainly make life easier during the Zombie apocalypse.

 

[ivanotter]

Good one on the vikings in the US.

I believe their weapon of choice was the axe, so it wold one of these we should carry along:

Now try to get in and out of a car with this one.
Or airport, or business meeting.

Ivan

 

[katchen]

Perhaps the Japan-Zollverein AU that Beer is developing. An AU where Prussian saber and Japanese bushido traditions blend.
BTW:
In OTL, Japanese police carried katana up until 1945 when American occupation forces, who considered katana to be a badge of Japan's militaristic past, insisted that Japanese police replace katana with American style automatic pistols.

 

[awesomestman]

Naval officers have official ceremonial swords for formal occasions.

Imagine if Western military tradition and cultural norms developed where a strong(er) naval culture developed, where nations larger and more prominent navies than OTL. This could be exacerbated with a heavier emphasis on naval aviation, especially if independent air forces have much smaller budgets. Then you have a cultural norm where wearing your military dress uniform was so commonplace just due to the public respect and honor given by civilian populations, even to, say: the grocery store, restaurants, or the movie theater - and there you have an acceptable, decent chunk of a nation's population carrying swords in public on a regular basis.

 

[mcdo]

In OTL, Japanese police carried katana up until 1945 when American occupation forces, who considered katana to be a badge of Japan's militaristic past, insisted that Japanese police replace katana with American style automatic pistols.

Prior to the Meiji "Restoration", police were simply local low-ranking samurai who served as judge, jury, and police all in one. They carried swords simply as a badge of their samurai rank. In 1872, a new police force was set up, modeled after the French and Prussian examples. These new police were sometimes called upon to act as ad-hoc militia in the early days, notably in the 1877 Satsuma Rebellion. As such, they used the same weapons that the Army did:
Rifles:

• Type 38 Rifle
• Type 44 Cavalry Rifle
• Type 97 Light Machine Gun

Pistols & Revolvers:

• Type 26 9 mm Pistol
• Type 14 8 mm Nambu Pistol
• Type 94 8 mm Pistol

It's true that police officers had swords, but these were merely part of their dress uniform. They were worn on parade, not on the beat, and they simply weren't meant to be true, fuctional weapons. I'm sure the police swords were used sometimes, but this would have been exceedingly rare. An average beat cop would carry no weapon at all save a baton. If it became necessary to carry a weapon for some special dangerous duty, they would skip the swords and go straight for a pistol or carbine.

Gerdarme would have had swords, but that was because of their nature as military police, not just because they were police.

In the postwar period, the US gave quite a few S&W revolvers (not automatics) to the newly reformed Japanese police. The Japanese kept using those, plus some Taurus models, and some ddomestic. 38 spcl revolvers. The US was the same way. The vast majority of US police departments continued using revolvers up until the 1980s, and only switched over to automatics with the development of the so-called "wonder nines" in that decade. I'm not sure what Japanese police carry now. I imagine they, too, have switched over to some polymer-framed auto by now, but during my time in Japan I'm not sure I've ever noticed a policeman carrying a weapon. The average beat cop still doesn't necessarily carry one, much like in the UK. But then, I wasn't really looking. I'm sure I have seen one and just not noticed.

Edit: Apparently this is the main Japanese police reolver.
I believe it is still in use. Plain clothes units and others needing deep concealment have switched over to this instead.

 

[LongVin]

Pretty difficult to manage, at least universally. For one thing, guns replaced edged weapons starting in the early 1800s, which would make a post 1900 POD close to impossible.

In The U.S., post Civil War I would judge it utterly impossible. France, close to utterly impossible. Germany maintained dueling fraternities (aka: Burschenschaft) to this day, so something is possible there, say due to some sort of regulation regarding firearms post WW I or WW II.

Britain is an interesting case, where firearms were generally available, even commonplace, up until the turn of the Century (the U.S. 2nd Amendment is based on English Common Law), to the point that in 1870 the Parliament passes a gun licensing law as a revenue measure, followed by a series of laws restricting pistols (weapons with a barrel of 9"or less) in 1903. Of course today, the UK is not only one of the most restrictive states on firearms but also on edged weapons down to table knife length, so it is hard to see it happening there either.

So perhaps if German culture had a greater influence in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

 

[thekingsguard]

Finding a way for swords to become a part of other Western societies, ie, America, Canada, Australia, etc, would help.

 

[LHB]

If you do some kind of POD where an American Revolution still happens but when it does there is a genuinely colonial, titled aristocracy in America that could lead to the necessary blending of mercantile and noble aristocracy. America's example of somewhat austere republican sensibility had an impact on how a lot of liberal movements thought of things like fashion and social mores; if you don't have America becoming a full-on no-titles republic complete with constitutional amendment banning titles of nobility for any citizen that could butterfly some of that current away.

 

[thekingsguard]

If you do some kind of POD where an American Revolution still happens but when it does there is a genuinely colonial, titled aristocracy in America that could lead to the necessary blending of mercantile and noble aristocracy. America's example of somewhat austere republican sensibility had an impact on how a lot of liberal movements thought of things like fashion and social mores; if you don't have America becoming a full-on no-titles republic complete with constitutional amendment banning titles of nobility for any citizen that could butterfly some of that current away.

Maybe, rather than tie it to an aristocracy, tie it to military service? America has always had a healthy respect for veterans, and a fetish for Greco-Roman styles and traditions - why not imitate the old fashion of giving a soldier a sword upon leaving the service, his right to wear for serving in the military?

 

[Nietzsche]

Hmm. Perhaps we could get this to work by a fusion of Prussian-style dueling culture, mixed with a cultural obsession with the Samurai culture and myth, that later incorporates some aspects of Sikhism? The Prussian aspect would allow it a Western base to work with, with Japanese tradition slowly incorporated, and topped off with, say, Gurkhas enjoying the same cultural status in movies of the era as cowboys and Samurai?