Mithraism is still an esoteric mystery cult, it’s just that the worship of Mithras has been adopted into Roman Hellenism(in the east, anyway).
I’ll have to look into these.
A Light Shines East: The World of a Christian Persia
- Thread starter Merovingian
- Start date
To put it in Spenglerian terms, Christianity will be this timelines rallying banner for the Magian souls to set them free from the servitude to an intrusive Hellenism.
The Prophets in Judaism were heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, so expect a continuation of this prophetic, mystical tradition and not the translation of Christian theology into Greek philosophy.
--result: No logos (that's a Stoic term).
--no Gnosticism, especially no Neoplatonic inspired Gnosticism (which again is inspired heavily by Greek philosophy)
--expect Christian practice to look more like Zoroastrian, Manichean and later Islamic practice, with many church councils, volumes upon volumes of canon law.
The Prophets in Judaism were heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, so expect a continuation of this prophetic, mystical tradition and not the translation of Christian theology into Greek philosophy.
--result: No logos (that's a Stoic term).
--no Gnosticism, especially no Neoplatonic inspired Gnosticism (which again is inspired heavily by Greek philosophy)
--expect Christian practice to look more like Zoroastrian, Manichean and later Islamic practice, with many church councils, volumes upon volumes of canon law.
Gnosticism still exists in the Roman Empire and there’s still some influence from Greek philosophy because of Paul, but yeah, this is essentially how TTL’s Christianity will compare to OTL’s. The Apostolic Church will bear strong Zoroastrian influence, and since Kartir managed to become Patriarch, will be more legalistic than OTL’s Christianity. I could also see the Nazarene Church adopting some Arabian tribal practices into their interpretation of Canon law.
didn't the book of Thomas have a bit that said "women can't go to heaven unless they become men"
Interlude: The World During Shapur’s Reign
The year is 265 AD, and the world has begun to change considerably from OTL. In Persia, the new Sassanid Empire has forged a place for itself on the world stage. The empire recently adopted Christianity as its state religion, and the new religion has forged itself its own distinct place in Persia’s culture. The Sassanids have emerged as the dominant power in the region under their King of Kings Shapur I, and have entered a new age of peace and prosperity.
To the west, Persia’s traditional rivals, the Romans, aren’t doing quite as well. The once-mighty Roman Empire finds itself divided between the Palmyrene Empire of Odaenathus in the east, the Gallic Empire of Postumus in the west, and Gallienus ruling what remains of Rome in between. It seems that the legacy of Caesar and Augustus dies here, with the Romans joining the long list of empires that failed to stand the test of time.
In Odaenathus’ Palmyrene Empire, the Roman Imperial Cult has begun to take on a unique new character; in addition to the pre-existing Greco-Roman pantheon, a combination of imported eastern gods and Neoplatonic philosophy has given Roman Hellenism a new character. The originally Iranic god Mithras, worshipped as a god of war, statesmanship, and the legions, has begun to replace Jupiter as head of the pantheon. Revered as the wife of Mithras is the originally Egyptian goddess Isis, worshipped as a goddess of femininity, motherhood, wisdom, and fertility. The concept of emanations[1] came to be adopted, with Serapis, Jupiter, and Sol Invictus being emanations of Mithras and Juno, Vesta, Minerva, Magna Mater, and Venus being emanations of Isis. According to the philosophy being developed, Mithras and Isis were themselves emanations of the primordial deity Aion. A sort of reincarnation was also introduced, with Odaenathus believed to be the reincarnation of Alexander the Great and his wife Zenobia that of Cleopatra.
In the Horn of Africa, the new empire of Axum is on the rise. While still not as powerful as the Sassanids or Palmyrenes, it was clear that they were carving a place for themselves in the world. Far to the east, China is going through a similar crisis as Rome, divided between the warring dynasties of Wei and Wu(and oreviously Shu). India remains divided between numerous Hindu and Buddhist kingdoms, as it has since the fall of the Maurya Empire, but the Sassanids have a growing presence in the region.
[1]Think Hindu avatars
To the west, Persia’s traditional rivals, the Romans, aren’t doing quite as well. The once-mighty Roman Empire finds itself divided between the Palmyrene Empire of Odaenathus in the east, the Gallic Empire of Postumus in the west, and Gallienus ruling what remains of Rome in between. It seems that the legacy of Caesar and Augustus dies here, with the Romans joining the long list of empires that failed to stand the test of time.
In Odaenathus’ Palmyrene Empire, the Roman Imperial Cult has begun to take on a unique new character; in addition to the pre-existing Greco-Roman pantheon, a combination of imported eastern gods and Neoplatonic philosophy has given Roman Hellenism a new character. The originally Iranic god Mithras, worshipped as a god of war, statesmanship, and the legions, has begun to replace Jupiter as head of the pantheon. Revered as the wife of Mithras is the originally Egyptian goddess Isis, worshipped as a goddess of femininity, motherhood, wisdom, and fertility. The concept of emanations[1] came to be adopted, with Serapis, Jupiter, and Sol Invictus being emanations of Mithras and Juno, Vesta, Minerva, Magna Mater, and Venus being emanations of Isis. According to the philosophy being developed, Mithras and Isis were themselves emanations of the primordial deity Aion. A sort of reincarnation was also introduced, with Odaenathus believed to be the reincarnation of Alexander the Great and his wife Zenobia that of Cleopatra.
In the Horn of Africa, the new empire of Axum is on the rise. While still not as powerful as the Sassanids or Palmyrenes, it was clear that they were carving a place for themselves in the world. Far to the east, China is going through a similar crisis as Rome, divided between the warring dynasties of Wei and Wu(and oreviously Shu). India remains divided between numerous Hindu and Buddhist kingdoms, as it has since the fall of the Maurya Empire, but the Sassanids have a growing presence in the region.
[1]Think Hindu avatars
The Book of Thomas was Gnostic, and so won’t be adopted by the Apostolic Church. Regardless, I’ll have to see if it actually said that.
I'm watching this, what worries me most is knowing what will happen to Europe and Rome. I feel that in the end Christianity will prevail in Europe only this time it's more like Islam will make its way through Europe.
Regarding Gnosticism...yeah the whole thing was obsessed with "hidden truths" so it's not surprising that the meaning of the passage is murky. Given how elsewhere in the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus chastises the apostles for looking down on Mary, I'd assume it's a mindset thing, ie think like a man (position of power) rather than a woman (position of subservience).
Also holy moly does TTL have no "Acts of the Apostles" and no "Letter to the Romans"? That's huge. It's interesting that the Apostolic church here is dualistic, since that's what gnosticism often fell into in OTL lol. I'd be interested in seeing how the Roman religion changing up affects Germany and Europe later on.
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I think the former exists ITTL, but very much different from OTL. Instead of the second half of the book being about Paul's travels around the Roman Empire, it's around the Parthian Empire instead, and he becomes Patriarch of Ctesiphon rather than being martyred in Rome.
The Apostolic Church isn’t dualistic, but it has dualistic elements due to the Zoroastrian influence. The reformed Roman religion will definitely effect Europe to the point that it becomes something that we would barely recognize as European.
Europe probably won’t become Christian ITTL, although some other Abrahamic religion rising to prominence. It would be ironic if TTL’s “Islam” equivalent came from Europe.
The Acts of the Apostles does indeed exist ITTL, albeit considerably different. Paul still spent most of his time in the Roman Empire, only becoming Patriarch of Ctesiphon during the last years of his life.
What about that gains followers, why do people want to think everyone(including themselves) is born evil?
This is essentially just the OTL Christian doctrine of original sin. Not so much born evil, but born fallen and capable of salvation.
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Lol yeah, it does.
"118 [114]. Simon Peter says to them: "Let Mary go out from our midst, for women are not worthy of life!" Jesus says: "See, I will draw her so as to make her male so that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who has become male will enter the Kingdom of heaven."
As with all religious texts, this passage can be interpreted in many ways, from a feminist standpoint, or from an anti-feminist one. Heck you could even interpret it as in favor for non-binary gender if you take it to mean that sex is obliterated in heaven.
Actually, the feminist character of the Book of Thomas makes it unlikely to be canonized by any patriarchical society in the region, this is also probably why it is considered apocrypha OTL
The Book of Thomas is not Gnostic, at the very least it's only partially so. It has a very different character, people only said it was Gnostic because it was found with other Gnostic texts.
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Here are my predictions for the religious breakdown of Europe and Near-Asia:
- Gallic Empire under old Roman imperial cult / celtic local pagan faith makes a comeback (if it survives)
- Roman Empire under Western Mithraism
- Greco-Turkish portions of the Roman Empire have locally strong gnostic christian influences, competing with the state religion.
Gnosticism ITTL is going to be very interesting since it could be exploited by the Palmyrenes to undermine roman influence, although it is a double-edged sword. The Romans may or may not take a hardline stance. A gnostic diaspora could lead to the rise of Gnosticism in Eastern Europe, and in Caucasia too. Caucasia is going to be a battleground for both the Gnostic and Apostolic denominations. Gnosticism will probably suffer a few schisms as Eastern Europe might require a more centralized and less ascetic version of it (this will happen in the far future, and not so soon)
- Palmyrene Empire under Eastern Mithraism (Anatolia also has strong gnostic christian influences and this is also reflected by emanations and gnostic influences causing the eastern variant)
- Palestine still has a significant jewish population, so dominated by Judaism
- Sassanid Empire under the Apostolic Church
- The Arabian peninsula is going to be a clusterfuck of christian, jewish and pagan sects until (and if) a Muhammad-type figure unites the peninsula
- Ethiopia and Egypt are probably going to be the same as OTL
- Afghanistan probably won't have any Gnostic christians, instead they'll have sects or syncretic faiths based on Buddhism and Apostolic Christianity
- Pakistan and India will likely also be Apostolic, but with less syncreticism? (battleground with local religions there too, like Hinduism and Sikhism)
- Depending on how Western Mithraism shakes out (it could still get replaced with another state cult after all), and the strength of the religion in displacing others, and the lifetime of the Gallic Empire:
- Western Mithraist Central and West Europe, with pagan syncreticisms (think Christmas, Halloween, whatever)
- Western Mithraist Central Europe, with Gallic influences. Spain is going to be Western Mithraist as well. Britain will either become old Roman or Celtic, depending on how the Gallic Empire decides to take things.
- Gallic conquest of Central europe results in a Gallic central europe, with syncreticisms
- Central Europe remains dominated by old pagan faiths
Predictions for canonization and whatever: this depends on socioeconomic factors, and whether any apocrypha survive or not. I think it's solid that:
- Book of Jubilees survives, but only as apocrypha. (accepted in Ethiopia). Ok, it could be canonized by the Apostolic Church. A likely result of the Book of Jubilees' canonization will the usage of Hebrew as a liturgical language. It will probably have a strong chance of being canonized by Arabic Christianity.
- Book of Giants survives, canonized by Anatolian and likely Greek Gnosticism. WIll probably survive out of sheer institutional inertia in Slavic Gnosticism, but it could also become a source of schism.
- Book of Enoch survives in Gnosticism. If the Book of Giants is rejected by Slavic Gnosticism this will too. Both books will not be canonized by Apostolic denominations due to the fact that they lend strong credence to Yahweh being a national god, and also other national gods existing, rather than being supreme.
- The Gospel of Judas will be universally canonized by Gnostic denominations.
- The Gospel of Thomas (i.e. Book of Thomas) will only be canonized by some Gnostic denominations. Likely not to play any factor in Arabic Christianity, unless somehow feminism catches on there. Side suggestion: "Thomaic" heresies become popular among peasant revolutions, in the vein of how egalitarian some heresies were, like the Cathars.
- The Song of Songs will be near universally canonized. May be rejected by some Apostolic sects.
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Also, the Gospel of Thomas might not ever see the light of day if it is considered apocrypha by everyone early on.
If you want the Palmyrene Empire to have a new crop of monarchs, the Emesene dynasty works. A possible progenitor of this dynasty is Marcus Julius Gessius Bassianus. Bonus points: the Palmyrene state cult now revolves around Heliogabalus, a sun deity.
Interlude 2: Religious State of the World
The world has entered a new era as traditional pagan religions decline in favor of newer ones. In Persia, the new religion of Christianity has been given institutional support. The Apostolic Church, led by the Patriarch of Ctesiphon, has adopted its institutional structure to that of the Sassanid Empire’s administrative divisions. Beneath the Patriarch, the Church’s bishops each have jurisdiction over a shahr[1] roughly corresponding to the Empire’s satrapies, which could be itself subdivided into parishes. The Apostolic Biblical Canon ins similar to the OTL Catholic or Orthodox Canons, but with a few major differences; the Acts of the Apostles are significantly different, and the Epistle to the Persians written by the Church’s third Patriarch, Saint Kaveh, is included, as is Ezra-Nehemiah. The Bible is always written in Aramaic, which is treated as a holy language[2]. The Emerging Nazarene Church uses the same Canon that the Apostolics do.
While the Apostolic Church rises to dominance in the Persian east, in the Roman west, the various Gnostic churches have become the most prominent sect. In addition to the four canonical gospels, the books of Judas and sometimes Thomas are also used. The Old Testament is also significantly altered, portraying the God of the Old Testament as a malevolent being inherently inferior to that of the New. The Palmyrene Emperor Odaenathus has allowed Gnostics to freely practice their religion so as to weaken Apostolic presence in his empire.
Odaenathus has sought to reform the traditional Greco-Roman religion to better compete with Christianity. In the emerging Palmyrene state religion, the primordial deity Aion, or the Monad, was the first thing to exist. From Aion emanated Mithras, the Celestial Demiurge, and his wife Isis. Mithras slew a primordial bull to create the world. Odaenathus and his wife Zenobia were worshipped as the earthly emanations of Mithras and Isis, setting the precedent for future emperors to proclaim themselves as living gods. In addition to Mithras and Isis, the old Dodekatheon are also worshipped, as well as the originally Syrian gods Atargatis and Hadad, the Phrygian Cybele/Magna Mater, and the Greco-Egyptian god Serapis. In addition to the gods worshipped as part of the state religion, various local deities were also worshipped, often as emanations of the official pantheon.
Traditionally, the Greco-Roman aristocracy would pursue one or both of two pursuits; the military and politics. However, the Palmyrene Empire was an absolute monarchy run by an all-powerful god-emperor, thus strangling the aristocracy out of their traditional senatorial careers, and the military consisted largely of conscripted barbarians who were commanded by Semitic Palmyrenes, thus strangling them out of any military career. The end result of this was a class of wealthy landowners who had nothing to do but think[3]. This ended up benefiting Odaenathus’ religious experiment, as it led to a flourishing of Neoplatonic philosophy. The new philosopher class would develop their own ideas that would effect Palmyrene society.
The Palmyrenes would adopt Plato’s Republic as their basis for an ideal society, and as a result, Palmyra would become about as socially stratified as you would expect. A sort of caste system would develop, with the emerging landowner-philosopher class on top, then the temple priests, then the legionaries, then the free citizens, and finally the slaves. It was the last who would make up the majority of the population, and the Neoplatonic renaissance would lead to a flourishing of slavery in Palmyra, backed up by the writings of Plato and Aristotle. A distinct set of rules developed surrounding social interactions between different castes. The Emperor was viewed as being outside of the emerging caste system due to being seen as a semi-divine being. Among many lower-caste Palmyrenes, the mere presence of the Emperor was seen as a religious experience, and custom dictated that one would avert their eyes when in his presence(although this wouldn’t develop until later).
[1]Middle Persian for “province”
[2]Think like Hebrew in Judaism or Arabic in Islam. The use of a holy language is part of the influence of the local culture. The choice of Aramaic is because it was both the lingua franca in the Middle East at the time and the language spoken by Jesus.
[3]This happened to the traditional Persian aristocracy IOTL after the Islamic conquest, leading to the Islamic Golden Age
While the Apostolic Church rises to dominance in the Persian east, in the Roman west, the various Gnostic churches have become the most prominent sect. In addition to the four canonical gospels, the books of Judas and sometimes Thomas are also used. The Old Testament is also significantly altered, portraying the God of the Old Testament as a malevolent being inherently inferior to that of the New. The Palmyrene Emperor Odaenathus has allowed Gnostics to freely practice their religion so as to weaken Apostolic presence in his empire.
Odaenathus has sought to reform the traditional Greco-Roman religion to better compete with Christianity. In the emerging Palmyrene state religion, the primordial deity Aion, or the Monad, was the first thing to exist. From Aion emanated Mithras, the Celestial Demiurge, and his wife Isis. Mithras slew a primordial bull to create the world. Odaenathus and his wife Zenobia were worshipped as the earthly emanations of Mithras and Isis, setting the precedent for future emperors to proclaim themselves as living gods. In addition to Mithras and Isis, the old Dodekatheon are also worshipped, as well as the originally Syrian gods Atargatis and Hadad, the Phrygian Cybele/Magna Mater, and the Greco-Egyptian god Serapis. In addition to the gods worshipped as part of the state religion, various local deities were also worshipped, often as emanations of the official pantheon.
Traditionally, the Greco-Roman aristocracy would pursue one or both of two pursuits; the military and politics. However, the Palmyrene Empire was an absolute monarchy run by an all-powerful god-emperor, thus strangling the aristocracy out of their traditional senatorial careers, and the military consisted largely of conscripted barbarians who were commanded by Semitic Palmyrenes, thus strangling them out of any military career. The end result of this was a class of wealthy landowners who had nothing to do but think[3]. This ended up benefiting Odaenathus’ religious experiment, as it led to a flourishing of Neoplatonic philosophy. The new philosopher class would develop their own ideas that would effect Palmyrene society.
The Palmyrenes would adopt Plato’s Republic as their basis for an ideal society, and as a result, Palmyra would become about as socially stratified as you would expect. A sort of caste system would develop, with the emerging landowner-philosopher class on top, then the temple priests, then the legionaries, then the free citizens, and finally the slaves. It was the last who would make up the majority of the population, and the Neoplatonic renaissance would lead to a flourishing of slavery in Palmyra, backed up by the writings of Plato and Aristotle. A distinct set of rules developed surrounding social interactions between different castes. The Emperor was viewed as being outside of the emerging caste system due to being seen as a semi-divine being. Among many lower-caste Palmyrenes, the mere presence of the Emperor was seen as a religious experience, and custom dictated that one would avert their eyes when in his presence(although this wouldn’t develop until later).
[1]Middle Persian for “province”
[2]Think like Hebrew in Judaism or Arabic in Islam. The use of a holy language is part of the influence of the local culture. The choice of Aramaic is because it was both the lingua franca in the Middle East at the time and the language spoken by Jesus.
[3]This happened to the traditional Persian aristocracy IOTL after the Islamic conquest, leading to the Islamic Golden Age
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I might include the Emesenes as a future Palmyrene dynasty, buy Heliogabalus has no chances after the disaster that was the reign of Elagabalus. Another solar deity is still entirely possible, however.
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