A Blunted Sickle - Thread II

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by pdf27, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. KACKO Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    Possible but we do not know. Especially with winter. Their supply situation will be terrible. Roads and railways in Ruthenia are going in west-east direction, built by Czechoslovaks to guarantee connection with allied Romania.

    Just realized, one more reason Hungarians need Slovaks in. To allow them supply routs to Poland through their much more suited road and railway network through mountains.

    Do you know how Ruthenian and Slovak border with Poland look like?

    If I was Tiso I would use it to negotiate return of Slovak territory lost in March war.
  2. generalurist Map Staring Expert

    Dec 21, 2013
    Well, that hungarian DOW came as a surprise! Though, I can see why they'd want to jump on the wining side while it was possible.

    I'm looking forwards to this then!
  3. teg The Worst Unionist

    Sep 24, 2009
    I suspect that Hitler's reputation in this timeline is going to be the ultimate demonstration of "first as tragedy, then as farce" - because seriously what is Hitler ITTL other than basically a cut price, less competent version of Kaiser Wilhelm II with a dash of Luddendorff? They conquered basically all of Europe east of France and Italy and came within a hair's breadth of defeating an alliance of Britain, France, and the United States of America. Hitler by contrast has only managed to conquer Poland, Denmark, part of Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands, and very briefly Paris. At university one of the German history lecturers often made the point that you could almost consider Hitler an 'erasatz Kaiser'. I suspect that viewpoint will be more mainstream here and quite a bit more negtive.

    Of course, if anyone ever finds out about the way he died, the maxim 'the Revolution devours its children' will also apply quite nicely.
  4. KACKO Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    Look at this map of Hungary - and check Hungarian - occupied Poland border. Mountainous thin strip maybe app 100-120 km long. When I check Czechoslovak map it seems there is whole one railway to Occupied Poland which then leads to... Soviet Union!

    General Ripper and marcinL like this.
  5. JN1 Has been called the C word on Twitter

    Nov 16, 2007
    My house
    I do hope so, although I was thinking more of Michael Portillo. :)
    I would think that ITTL he would be able to travel from Vancouver to Fairbanks by train. Would be quite a journey by rail.
    Donald Reaver and Driftless like this.
  6. ngf Well-Known Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    That's a very narrow entryway into Poland. Did the Slovak’s give Hungary the right of passage through their territory?
  7. Joe Bonkers Bears are fast.

    May 25, 2007
    Alcan Railway would (reporting marks: ALC) would likely be dieselized right from the start.

    Dieselization on American and Canadian roads would have been moving along more rapidly than in OTL, because the United States never entered the war and therefore US diesel locomotive manufacturers are not hampered by wartime restrictions. Alco might have a chance to be more successful, because its RS1 - the first road switcher, i.e. all-purpose locomotive rather than one designed for a specific task, an idea the railroads very much liked - would continue to be produced in large numbers, production not having been curtailed by the war.
    Indiana Beach Crow and SsgtC like this.
  8. Driftless Geezer

    Sep 16, 2011
    Out in the Driftless Area
    Maybe a leg of Jack Kerouac's road trip. Or someone like Gary Snyder. Michael Palin will make the trek in this century, with numerous side excursions.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  9. KACKO Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    They are not in as yet. And Hungarians after Vienna awards and March war 1939 were not most popular in Slovakia.
    On other side they may negotiate some concessions as well as they need tonswitch sides as soon as possible as author said.
  10. SsgtC Ready to Call it a Day

    May 14, 2017
    Gotta agree here. In my own ATL where the US stays out of WWII, ALCO is still going strong in 1975. And the US was almost completely dieselized by 1950.
    Joe Bonkers likes this.
  11. KACKO Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    I found map of Ruthenian railways while part of Czechoslovakia.

    There are 3 South-North railways. All 3 have their destinations in areas taken by Soviet Union (from West to East destinations were Sambor/ Sambir, Lwow and Sanislawow.
  12. Komnenos002 asdf

    Mar 10, 2011
    The reason he brought it up is that quoting the entire update leads to a decent amount of scrolling for people on mobile phones.

    Not major, but it does mean I try to not quote text unless there's an explicit reason for it. :)
    Stark, What if, Electric Monk and 2 others like this.
  13. ngf Well-Known Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Will the Hungarians be launching an offensive into Austria or just holding defensive positions along the frontier? I can’t believe that the Germans really have enough forces there to stop the Hungarian army from taking Vienna.
  14. varyar Who?

    Dec 14, 2007
    <-- hoping for Otto von Habsburg to reclaim the throne here.

    (Back in October, pdf said a recreation of 'Austria-Hungary' isn't happening, but I wonder if we'll see a return of the Archduchy of Austria.)
    What if and KACKO like this.
  15. Artaxerxes A terrible pain in my diodes

    Mar 13, 2013
    Augusta, Britannia Superior
    I see.
    Komnenos002 likes this.
  16. KACKO Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    Their logistic is strained thin though. One railway to ocuppied Poland ending in mountainous middle of nowhere. However their tanks could be useful in Austria. If Slovaks comitted theirs into same... Can you imagine? Hungarian-Slovak brotherhood in arms. Some 8 years ago I wrote for myself similar story where Slovaks and Hungarians cooperated in liberation of Austria and Protectorate and armed Polish POWs/ internees.

    Oh. There were number of interned Polish personnel in Hungary. I have seen 100 000. Of which some 30k were smuggled out!
    neopeius likes this.
  17. naraht Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    As a note, I thought the Czech part of Czechoslovakia bordered Hungary, in fact Austria borders Slovakia. Means that the entire Hungarian effort outside Poland will be against Austria. How far to Vienna?
  18. pdf27 Making sparks fly!

    Mar 8, 2007

    Shame they're terrible on the Hungarian/Polish border.

    Actually, maybe I did mean it - the Poles really do want to take back their lands lost to the Soviets too. I really can't remember - it was months since I wrote that <shrugs>

    Do I sense a map coming up in the near future?

    Rural, hilly, and there is about one road crossing it.

    He can try. He's trapped between two options - the longer he waits, the more leverage he has over the Hungarians and the less over the Czechoslovak government in exile and the Entente in general. Problem is, he really needs to keep both happy and this isn't possible.


    Not even close on the distance - it's actually about 15 km, the rest of it is the border with Ukraine. I can find one road and one footpath in this distance - and the road is a tiny single-track thing.

    Quite a bit further than that if you really want to...

    So far, no.

    Yep, dieselisation is happening very fast in the US right now. I can't imagine them trying to run steam on any Alaska-Canada railway - diesels are vastly more suitable and there isn't any pre-existing infrastructure.

    I haven't decided yet - the first attack is into Poland to support the Poles, and very publicly so. What they do next I haven't written yet, but I suspect the British and French Ambassadors will be lining up to both encourage them to invade Austria and making it clear that while forgiveness for past transgressions might be on the table future ones won't be accepted. Good luck enforcing that, of course...

    1st June 1950
    The Austrian State Treaty (Österreichischer Staatsvertrag) is signed in Vienna by representatives of the six occupying powers (The United Kingdom, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway and Poland) and the Austrian Government, with Hungary and Czechoslovakia signing as witnesses. It re-establishes Austria as an independent state in the form of a constitutional monarchy with Otto von Habsburg as the King Otto I of Austria (in return for which he formally renounces all of his other titles for himself and his heirs and successors, for all time). The current Chancellor (Leopold Figl of the ÖVP) is to remain in position, and assumes some of the powers that had previously been theoretically held by the President rather than passing them on to the new King.
    Other important points of the treaty are that political union with Germany is expressly and permanently forbidden, and the rights of national minorities such as Slovenes and Croats are protected by the new Basic Law. Austria is also to committed to perpetual neutrality with armed forces of no more than 250,000 men at full mobilization, with no more than 25,000 of these permitted to serve engagements of longer than two years. The treaty also repudiates several articles of the Treaty of Saint-German-en-Laye relating to the form of government and armed forces of Austria.
    With the signing of the treaty, the occupying powers announce that their last troops will have been completely withdrawn from Austria before the 1st of October 1950.
    AndyF, jolou, dunHozzie and 10 others like this.
  19. Wet Coast Knight of the Dinner Table

    Nov 26, 2009
    They had also interred some Polish TKS tankettes in 1939 and refurbished them for use in training. They could hand those back to the Poles for use by the uprising.
  20. pdf27 Making sparks fly!

    Mar 8, 2007
    Interned Poles will long since have "escaped" in dribs and drabs and will be either in France or fighting in Poland with the ZWZ.

    75km or so...

    Tough to get them anywhere useful though...
    AndyF likes this.