A Blunted Sickle - Thread II

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by pdf27, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Wet Coast Knight of the Dinner Table

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    It's the symbolism.... errr I mean "thought" that counts. Heck I'm a Canadian of Hungarian ancestry so I want to see Hungary come out of this OK unlike most WWII timelines where either they become puppets of one side or another or are trashed instead.
     
  2. generalurist Map Staring Expert

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    Is there any possible of a German counter-invasion into Hungary (most likely just some small raids), or do the Hungarians have that border fortified enough?
     
  3. KACKO Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. On other side, Hungarians know they will very likely not keep everything they gained from Czechoslovakia. Especially if Slovakia will get back under Prague influence. They gained some 1500 sq km, 74 villages. Basically not a single one of them Hungarian. Well probably you would find few. What they gained by March 1939 military action against Ruthenia and Slovakia will be biggest question, however even some Vienna award gains are very questionable.
    Tiso on other side have option to mobilize and jump in towards Protectorate. His northern wing is protected by mountains as well as insurgent Poles and attacking Hungarians. Heck if he does nothing, he got standing army and nation who got smell of independence while Czechs got 1 division in France which is 50% percent manned by Slovaks. Will be allies willing to proceed against Slovakia? Maybe yes and indeed it is bit to big gamble. But after all Slovak Independence was proclaimed by democratically elected Slovak Diet.



    From my reading over 100K Poles were in Hungary during WWII. From these some 30K made it to West OTL.

    About right from Sopron. I guess most western area towards Wien. 54 km from Bratislava. But Slovaks are protected by Danube here so I wouldn't bother in their place to much. In my opinion their political points are in Protectorate.

    Hungarians had app 12 pieces of different versions of TK. Used for training or as a tractors. Not really reason to bother to transfer them to Poland from military POV. If they can find few guys among polish refugees who served on them and used it for PR reasons that could be bit useful. But with strained logistic questionable.
     
  4. KACKO Well-Known Member

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    Border with Austria wasn't fortified at all. Of course if you don't count for example Tarodi castle in Sopron and similar fortifications from years long gone.
     
  5. marathag Well-Known Member

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    Given the limited Border with Hungary, an awful good number of Polish troops and gear ended up in Hungary it seems.

    If it can get in, stands to reason it can get back
     
  6. KACKO Well-Known Member

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    Makes great propaganda value. But no military value at all.
     
  7. marathag Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2013
    But has definite Political value.

    Looks altogether different with a few Polish Units enter Warsaw, than just Hungarian.

    Compare with Free French going into Paris.

    3rd Army under Patton didn't need Leclerc's Free French units to liberate Paris
     
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  8. Military tactics Banned

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    Story only or threadmark?
     
  9. KACKO Well-Known Member

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    Well but Leclerc's FF had combat value and especially were equipped with same equipment as Patton's units. On other side few TK left. 12 total in 1939. How many are in running condition in December 1941?
    Of course they can one or two always put on lorry, transport them to Praga, unload, try to start and if at least one of them works, hurrah, we got Free Polish troops liberating Capital. ;)
     
  10. Jonathansouth Member

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    It could be a very interesting Domino effect with Hungary jumping in the clock is ticking for both Yugoslavia and Italy and I could see both jumping in before it's to late hell in reality Brazil declared war on Germany in 1943 with Brazilian troops fighting in Italy largely as they wanted the allies to overlook the support they had given to Hitler in the 30s in the post war world
     
  11. Jellico Well-Known Member

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    Dec 14, 2017
    And now for something completely different...

    With this awesome display of advanced military technology about to occur, what Wonderwaffen (from both sides) will be fetishized over after the war ends?
     
  12. SsgtC Ready to Call it a Day

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    Honestly, I could see a lot of weharboos going on and on about, "if only von Braun had been allowed to develop his rockets, then Germany would have won."
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  13. DracoLazarus Master of Punkind

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    The Char B1 might be fetishized as the equivalent of the Panther and/or Tiger.
     
  14. Orcbuster Well-Known Member

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    Mar 6, 2017
    The SARL-42 will definitly be hailed as the t-34 of this era. The panzer 3 will be the feared german opponent and the matilda will be the tiger equivalent.
     
  15. ngf Well-Known Member

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    Sep 11, 2014
    Since you asked, here it is. The OB East situation is based on the Border Commands in the OTL as of 10 May 1940, but with Border Commands North, Center, and South renamed as the Third, Eighth, and Seventeenth Armies, respectively, due to the start of active operations on this front. These armies are likely very understrength. The only changed in commanders that I've made is to name Gen. Stüpenagel in command of Border Command Center, replacing Gen. Gienanth, who was dual hatted as the commander of OB East. By this time Gienanth had also been named as the Military-Commander of the General-Government, so I looked around for an unemployed general who could relieve him of some of his burden of commanding too many echelons.

    I've also activated the Fourteenth Army for the defense of Austria, but this is likely still just a paper formation with very few combat troops under its command.

    For the Soviets, I show three active "fronts", which are based on the peacetime military districts that bordered East Prussia and German-occupied Poland. I grouped these fronts under a single theater commander. I choose Marshall Budenny over Marshall Voroshilov due to Budenny's familiarity with Poland from the 1920 Polish-Soviet War and Voroshilov still being out of favor due to his poor performance int the Winter War.

    Enjoy! :)
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. ngf Well-Known Member

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    I just realized I made an error on the map. I colored the Slovak army blue rather than red. Although it is very likely that the Slovaks may switch to the Entente in the future, they are as of now still a German puppet state. I’ll correct this in the next map update (assuming they don’t switch sides before then).
     
  17. Wet Coast Knight of the Dinner Table

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    According to my copy of "Hungarian Armored Forces" Polish vehicles interned by Hungary amounted to 15 to 20 TKS tankettes and 3 R35 light tanks. These were refurbished and maintained (with the assistance of the Polish tank crews that were interned with them) before being used for training by Hungary. At least one of the R35s was still operational in 1945 when it was captured by the Soviets in Budapest. It becomes a propaganda issue not an operational one because their combat value is pretty non-existent but symbols are important.
     
  18. Rufus Shinra Statistical unlikeliness

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    Paris
    Maybe the Bugatti 110P from the French?

    [​IMG]
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    It could be seen afterwards as the ultimate ‘could have been’ prop fighter for the Second Great War, king of speed and agility for the particular air front that requires a lot shorter range than OTL WW2.
     
  19. Tanguy Pluchet Member

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    Apr 19, 2018
    Er... the SARL-42 was never developped ITTL. The SOMUA family will likely end with the S-41. With the G1 entering service, the French Army has no need to squeeze a 75mm gun onto the SOMUA chassis.

    The SOMUA ITTL might be regarded the same way as the T-34 OTL : at first glance an exceptionnal design, but on a second thought plagued with issues and took a long time to reach maturity.
     
  20. fhaessig Member

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    I thought ITTL, it was the G-2, a simplified version of the G-1 (non existing OTL, AFAIK), which entered service?