A Better Rifle at Halloween

[ArtosStark]

The whole reason the Ross existed is the Brits wouldn't license the SMLE to Canada for some reason

They would actually. AIUI they just wanted Canada to wait until production had reached a level that it could reasonably be expected to replace in service rifles before they would free up the production staff. Canada had skipped out on the last update (to the Long Lee) and was therefore equipped largely with Martini’s. So they felt they really needed an update soon. And in came Ross promising a home built rifle better and faster than the British could deliver anyway. And promising it could still be made in the same calibre as British weapons. With the support of Hughes as Minister of Militia, he got the contract.

When British production caught up they were happy to expand it to the Dominions. New Zealand and Australia both got a factory. But by then Canada was committed to the Ross.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

AIUI (and it is really not a lot) the Ross had the markings for an really food sniper rifle.

The Ross Mk III had the makings to be a decent service rifle, but by the time all the problems had been solved the troops had lost all confidence with it and were looting any SMLE that wasn't nailed down. With the troops refusing to use the things the rifle was dead.

 

[Crowbar Six]

They would actually. AIUI they just wanted Canada to wait until production had reached a level that it could reasonably be expected to replace in service rifles before they would free up the production staff. Canada had skipped out on the last update (to the Long Lee) and was therefore equipped largely with Martini’s. So they felt they really needed an update soon. And in came Ross promising a home built rifle better and faster than the British could deliver anyway. And promising it could still be made in the same calibre as British weapons. With the support of Hughes as Minister of Militia, he got the contract.

When British production caught up they were happy to expand it to the Dominions. New Zealand and Australia both got a factory. But by then Canada was committed to the Ross.

Plus the UK wanted to charge an eye watering amount for the SMLE tooling. It's why Australia bought all their tooling from Westinghouse at a significant cost benefit even after paying the tariffs for imports into the Empire.

 

[ArtosStark]

Plus the UK wanted to charge an eye watering amount for the SMLE tooling. It's why Australia bought all their tooling from Westinghouse at a significant cost benefit even after paying the tariffs for imports into the Empire.

Now that I believe.

 

[Orangeduke38]

There's also the P14 that may come up as the new designated marksmen's rifle. It was originally designed for a rimless 276 so rechambering it for the 28 should be a simple job.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

There's also the P14 that may come up as the new designated marksmen's rifle. It was originally designed for a rimless 276 so rechambering it for the 28 should be a simple job.

The problem with the P13/14 is that not only is it not in production yet but there aren't even finalised drawings for it, which is why rifles from the three American factories set up to build it weren't interchangeable. Each factory was sent a pattern rifle to copy, but they were largely hand built so had small differences.

 

[diesal]

11th October 1914, Providence Rhode Island.

The strikers at Brown and Sharpe had taken issue with the lack of a pay rise, the company had recently been given an order for new machine tools. The order had come from Japan, but despite the growing war the anticipated flood of orders had not been forthcoming. There were small orders here and there but mainly from Russia and Japan, it seemed that the British, French and Belgians were not placing huge orders with businesses in the United States, instead more orders seemed to be going to Canada, even more worryingly the number of orders for US industry seemed to be dropping off slightly. The picket line was rowdy, with banners denouncing capitalism and calling for workers’ rights stretched across the entrance to the factory. The sudden wildcat strike was a major problem, the young man needed to work, but he feared crossing the picket line. He wondered again if he should return to his Native Quebec, where skilled industrial workers were in high demand. His brother had already taken a position with the Ross Rifle Company, the death of Hughes had dinted demand for their rifle, but they were apparently in talks to start making the new Farquhar Hill Rifle.

 

[diesal]

More rifle related content for a while. I have been listening to Gun Jesus so I think my rotating bolt blow back system is possibly viable, not saying for definite sure but the Villar Perosa has a sort of rotating bolt delayed blowback system. I don't think it is super practical given machining tolerances and friction, but I will keep thinking about it. Again the choice of the .45 Long Mars is a little bit rule of cool, but also the early Thompson sub Machine gun included a version chambered in 45 Remington-Thompson cartridge which is not that different from the .45 Long Mars, of course the countervailing argument is that it never met any commercial success.

 

[kelgar04]

Oh damn without that slush of money from Europe and all the worker chaos the US is starting to struggle I imagine a lot of people who invested in the arms industry in anticipation of the glut are feeling the pinch.

Wonder if someone will try to kill so high placed magnate when they really start feeling the pinch.

 

[diesal]

Oh damn without that flush of money from Europe and all the worker chaos the US is starting to struggle I imagine a lot of people who invested in the arms industry in anticipation of the glut are feeling the pinch.

Wonder if someone will try to kill so high placed magnate when they really start feeling the pinch.

Things are going to get worse in the US, in many ways WW1 delayed a civil breakdown in the US, if you follow Peter Turchin's thinking on Cliodynamics. But without the massive influx of industrial orders and the brutal censorship and political control implemented by Wilson the US is going to have lots of problems. Plus the anarchists will have both more successes and failures, we may see socialism in America we may see a form of National Socialism (Huey Long style) who knows but there will be plenty of things to consider.
But here is a question for the Audience if you had to build a large Royal Navy base in the western hemisphere would you build it in Bermuda or St Johns or somewhere else.

 

[kelgar04]

Bermuda or St Johns or somewhere else.

Depends what is the mission of this base both have their advantages though Bermuda is a better waypoint, St Johns could be useful if you need to heavily patrol the Carribean.

Though you could go with Jamaica but it's a bit of a case though there are good harbours there.

 

[Marquis]

11th October 1914, Providence Rhode Island.

The strikers at Brown and Sharpe had taken issue with the lack of a pay rise, the company had recently been given an order for new machine tools. The order had come from Japan, but despite the growing war the anticipated flood of orders had not been forthcoming. There were small orders here and there but mainly from Russia and Japan, it seemed that the British, French and Belgians were not placing huge orders with businesses in the United States, instead more orders seemed to be going to Canada, even more worryingly the number of orders for US industry seemed to be dropping off slightly. The picket line was rowdy, with banners denouncing capitalism and calling for workers’ rights stretched across the entrance to the factory. The sudden wildcat strike was a major problem, the young man needed to work, but he feared crossing the picket line. He wondered again if he should return to his Native Quebec, where skilled industrial workers were in high demand. His brother had already taken a position with the Ross Rifle Company, the death of Hughes had dinted demand for their rifle, but they were apparently in talks to start making the new Farquhar Hill Rifle.

Time to promote migration from the US to Canada? Get skilled workers north of the border.

Are we going down the route of Red America?

 

[kelgar04]

Time to promote migration from the US to Canada? Get skilled workers north of the border.

Are we going down the route of Red America?

That or the fractured states

 

[pjmidd]

But here is a question for the Audience if you had to build a large Royal Navy base in the western hemisphere would you build it in Bermuda or St Johns or somewhere else

Little confused, the big base for the RN on the North America and West Indies Station is already the Royal Naval Dockyard in Bermuda ( and has been since 1794 ) with the RCN having taken over Halifax ( a sometimes summer base ) less than a decade previous.

 

[Salamander]

But here is a question for the Audience if you had to build a large Royal Navy base in the western hemisphere would you build it in Bermuda or St Johns or somewhere else.

Beef up Bermuda and build a major base in Vancouver

 

[ArtosStark]

But here is a question for the Audience if you had to build a large Royal Navy base in the western hemisphere would you build it in Bermuda or St Johns or somewhere else.

Little confused, the big base for the RN on the North America and West Indies Station is already the Royal Naval Dockyard in Bermuda ( and has been since 1794 ) with the RCN having taken over Halifax ( a sometimes summer base ) less than a decade previous.

Bermuda was already the RN station in question at this time.

Prior to about the 1870’s British diplomacy was predicated on having no alliances that could impede its freedom of action. Thus they had to be ready to fight a war anywhere. It was only in the late 19th century that enough powers were rising as possible challengers that they decided to start cutting down the task with diplomatic agreements. The first place they did that was in North America. The Naturalization Convention of 1870 and the Washington Treaty of 1871 allowed the RN to gradually reduce strength in North America to focus on other theatres. They would do the same in the Early 1900’s in the Far East after the Anglo-Japanese alliance. Shortly after they would briefly abolish the North America and West Indies station entirely (they brought it back in 1915).

Before all that, however, Bermuda was the main base of the station with support from Halifax (Halifax sometimes being the summer station). St. John’s is both too far off the main trade routes and has a long season of poor weather and sea states in the winter. There is also not a lot of industry to support the fleet there.

I would say Bermuda with the possibility of an agreement with Canada to use Halifax. The RCN could certainly use the support and additional training such a deal would bring them and the Canadian government wouldn’t be opposed to anything that helped defray the cost of the Navy.

 

[Orangeduke38]

More rifle related content for a while. I have been listening to Gun Jesus so I think my rotating bolt blow back system is possibly viable, not saying for definite sure but the Villar Perosa has a sort of rotating bolt delayed blowback system. I don't think it is super practical given machining tolerances and friction, but I will keep thinking about it. Again the choice of the .45 Long Mars is a little bit rule of cool, but also the early Thompson sub Machine gun included a version chambered in 45 Remington-Thompson cartridge which is not that different from the .45 Long Mars, of course the countervailing argument is that it never met any commercial success.

Given all the problems with the Mars and its lack of manufacturing facilities I would use the Webley Self-Loading Pistol as the basis for a new sub machine gun. Its from a well established English company, already known to work, and in modest use by the troops. The WSLP was a development of the Mars anyway just simplified and feasible. But if they develop something like the Owen gun there was a prototype that used the same 455 as the revolvers.

 

[jlckansas]

You could use the 9mm Largo that the Spanish were using in their pistols at the time. The Campo Giro was a delayed blowback developed in 1912/1912.

 

[CaptainCalvert]

Given all the problems with the Mars and its lack of manufacturing facilities I would use the Webley Self-Loading Pistol as the basis for a new sub machine gun. Its from a well established English company, already known to work, and in modest use by the troops.

I agree.
A good gun latee can use proper design and the best round available for the job.
A gun that's better than what we have now - and quickly - makes more sense as an adequate upgrade of an existing system (or maybe this round plus that gun/mechanism).

 

[Sqdn19]

Re the Pistol & Cartidge discussion: It is possible at this stage in the war we may see lots of different designers churning out SMGs & PCCs (Pistol Calibre Carbines), especially depending on the latitude of individual units to pick their own equipment. Urban combat would accelerate this trend too.

Had the British Army done away with reporters in the field yet? I know Churchill has a full-time-job, but I can see someone in that ilk running around France and Belgium writing “awkward dynamite” to stir up all the armchair generals back home to write letters to The Tines and their MPs demanding more of “these new automatic firearms”.