1980s Culture Under a Democratic US President

[phx1138]

Without Reagan in charge, you wouldn't get the enormous wave of LBOs & Gekkoesque buyouts & enormous numbers of layoffs, all of which had to affect culture. Not to mention all the associated corporate debt. Airline & trucking regulation that persists means higher prices, but better service. Probably you don't get the wave of Japanese takeovers that flowed from the spike in U.S. debt, either. (Does that help Japan's economy in the long run?) Nor the number of "Japan war" novels.

Not that any of this is directly related to culture...
Edit 3: In that vein, how does PotUS handle the stagflation after '76? Or are we presuming the absence of the Oil Shock means that doesn't happen?

If it doesn't, that likely means a lot of U.S. carmakers don't go after captive imports (no Dodge Colt, frex); so, too, no Vega/Astre, & probably no Dodge Omni/clones (nor Omni GLH ). What replaces them? *Rabbits/*Golfs? *Corollas? Or something more the size of the '77 Regal? (Cf CAFE below)
Edit:

This would also cause some pretty big changes in comic books. We might not have the grungey 90s Dark age of comics.

I'm honestly not seeing the connection. The "dark & gritty" age was a product of the success of Rorschach, & I don't see Alan changing him much.
Edit 4: In ref Miller, again, I don't see how politics figure in. Dark Knight was a product of what Frank wanted to do with the character. If you want something interesting, get him to give that (or the DD) treatment to White Tiger.

If global warming is an issue any sooner, does that mean Truman's Scout happens sooner? (Presuming the changes in the industry allow it...)

Does the industry change enough to move the needle on Sable's intro?

If you can somehow save Iron Fist, you'd make me very happy, btw.
Edit 2:
In ref global warming responses, what are the chances for butterflying away CAFE standards & crusher laws? (They are a poison for car enthusiasts, customizers, & rodders. ) I wonder if Democrats could sell a gas tax &/or carbon tax, which are actually better for achieving the stated goal (tho politically the hardest).

 

[phx1138]

It could be someone relatively left-field considering this is still fairly early in the life of the primary/caucus system

In that vein, what about (frex)Preston Smith or Dolph Briscoe?

My question is, is the change merely due to Ford not having his OTL gaffes, or is there external "pressure" affecting which way things lean? Like the Oil Shock's absence, or revealling Exxon manipulation, which might lead either of these Texas Democrats to say, "I can deal with Exxon without killing jobs, I'm from Texas." (Okay, I know, did either actually aspire to be PotUS?)

 

[CountDVB]

Without Reagan in charge, you wouldn't get the enormous wave of LBOs & Gekkoesque buyouts & enormous numbers of layoffs, all of which had to affect culture. Not to mention all the associated corporate debt. Airline & trucking regulation that persists means higher prices, but better service. Probably you don't get the wave of Japanese takeovers that flowed from the spike in U.S. debt, either. (Does that help Japan's economy in the long run?) Nor the number of "Japan war" novels.

Not that any of this is directly related to culture...
Edit 3: In that vein, how does PotUS handle the stagflation after '76? Or are we presuming the absence of the Oil Shock means that doesn't happen?

If it doesn't, that likely means a lot of U.S. carmakers don't go after captive imports (no Dodge Colt, frex); so, too, no Vega/Astre, & probably no Dodge Omni/clones (nor Omni GLH ). What replaces them? *Rabbits/*Golfs? *Corollas? Or something more the size of the '77 Regal? (Cf CAFE below)
Edit:

I'm honestly not seeing the connection. The "dark & gritty" age was a product of the success of Rorschach, & I don't see Alan changing him much.
Edit 4: In ref Miller, again, I don't see how politics figure in. Dark Knight was a product of what Frank wanted to do with the character. If you want something interesting, get him to give that (or the DD) treatment to White Tiger.

If global warming is an issue any sooner, does that mean Truman's Scout happens sooner? (Presuming the changes in the industry allow it...)

Does the industry change enough to move the needle on Sable's intro?

If you can somehow save Iron Fist, you'd make me very happy, btw.
Edit 2:
In ref global warming responses, what are the chances for butterflying away CAFE standards & crusher laws? (They are a poison for car enthusiasts, customizers, & rodders. ) I wonder if Democrats could sell a gas tax &/or carbon tax, which are actually better for achieving the stated goal (tho politically the hardest).

Alan Moore may not change much, but the time period has. Comic books and other works has served as unique reflections and or criticisms of the era. With a more leftist president, we would not have the buyouts, the economic decisions and whatnot that helped defined the 80s greed is good yuppie mentality and the darker more cynical undertone that laid under it. As such, I do not think people would really be that interested in the darker stuff, at least as much.

Politics influences economies and vice versa and both influence pop culture through the feeling, tone and decisions.

Alan Moore may write something akin to Watchman, but it may not be published by DC and he might use characters in the public domain.

As for Frank Miller, he was inspired by a Dirty Harry movie known as Sudden Impact, which may not come out here given the different setting and times (not to mention it was origially a standalone film prior to being adapted.

As for your car stuff, well CAFE standards would still be in place since it occurred in 1975, though I reckon they could be relaxed by Ford (until the Oil Crisis of 1976 hits) and then maybe updated. What are Crusher laws?

As for the Dems with a gas or carbon tax, eh I could see a carbon tax. One note is if Exxon gets caught suppressing the climcate change stuff and the disinformaton attempts. This would give the Dems alot of political firepower to use against them and if it was a leftist rather than a neoliberal in the early 1990s, then they could definitely put some strong restrictions on gas companies and if they tried raising prices of gas, the USA could go "nice try" and get the gas companies to shoot themselves further in the foot and without the greed is good mentality, we'd get more and mroe scrutiny toward major companies and the people on top. I doubt price fixes would be plausible in the slightest, but I've wondered about a maximum wage...

 

[phx1138]

Alan Moore may not change much, but the time period has. Comic books and other works has served as unique reflections and or criticisms of the era. With a more leftist president, we would not have the buyouts, the economic decisions and whatnot that helped defined the 80s greed is good yuppie mentality and the darker more cynical undertone that laid under it. As such, I do not think people would really be that interested in the darker stuff, at least as much.

Except Alan was expressly criticizing the comics, not the society at large. Watchmen doesn't necessarily go grimdark, & I agree, it probably won't. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

he might use characters in the public domain

Depending on who he's working for. That's why he had to use expys in the first place: the story was using characters DC wanted to keep (after spending so much to acquire them in the first place). Not to mention, DC's likely to publish anyhow, given Moore's track record, whatever he does with it.

Frank Miller, he was inspired by a Dirty Harry movie known as Sudden Impact, which may not come out

I'd bet it still does, given the subject matter, even if it doesn't end up as a "Dirty Harry" sequel.

What are Crusher laws?

California-style laws sending any car older than 20yr to the crushers as "gross polluters". They're stupid, & wrong.

 

[NHBL]

There's a lot of useful info and speculation here, a lot of which will be specifically relevant to the timeline I'm working on, in which Carter will likely win in '80. MUCH appreciated!

For the experts on comics, in a nation that has democrats in office longer, is the abomination known as the comics code likely to weaken any faster? Either its abandonment, or a way to get non-compliant comics distributed?

 

[CountDVB]

Except Alan was expressly criticizing the comics, not the society at large. Watchmen doesn't necessarily go grimdark, & I agree, it probably won't. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Depending on who he's working for. That's why he had to use expys in the first place: the story was using characters DC wanted to keep (after spending so much to acquire them in the first place). Not to mention, DC's likely to publish anyhow, given Moore's track record, whatever he does with it.
I'd bet it still does, given the subject matter, even if it doesn't end up as a "Dirty Harry" sequel.

California-style laws sending any car older than 20yr to the crushers as "gross polluters". They're stupid, & wrong.

Fair. However, the thing about the film that inspired Frank Miller was an old grizzled hero coming out of retirement. It was never meant to be about Dirty Harry, who’s last film was about 6 years prior. That rough hero now older and coming out of retirement was what inspired Miller for DKR

Yeah, the “crusher” laws sound impractical, but what could be done to improved?

 

[phx1138]

Fair. However, the thing about the film that inspired Frank Miller was an old grizzled hero coming out of retirement. It was never meant to be about Dirty Harry, who’s last film was about 6 years prior. That rough hero now older and coming out of retirement was what inspired Miller for DKR

If it doesn't depend on being Callahan, any film (any story!) with a similar premise could do it. So what about, say, "Lonesome Dove"? Or the story behind "Unforgiven"? "Rooster Cogburn" (1969?)? It's not a new idea, exactly.

Yeah, the “crusher” laws sound impractical, but what could be done to improved?

For a start, enforce smog gear laws on cars between 5 & 10 years old, which are the worst polluters: owners let the gear get out of shape, & there's less penalty. Roadside testing stations (testing while driving), & tickets, would be a good idea, too.

I favor a sales tax credit for rodders or customizers who use wrecking yard parts, to encourage recycling... Tax credits for customizers or rodders who put crate engines (new from the factory, engine only) in older cars would be good, too; better still, a credit for using a wrecker-soured rebuilt (or remanufactured {heavily rebuilt}) engine.

Cars that sit in yards & driveways being rebuilt aren't polluting at all--& if cars get crushed, the poorest people suffer (they often can't afford anything newer), & rodders & customizers lose a source of irreplaceable parts.

For the experts on comics, in a nation that has democrats in office longer, is the abomination known as the comics code likely to weaken any faster? Either its abandonment, or a way to get non-compliant comics distributed?

By the time you get to where your POD is, it's pretty well dead anyhow.

There's a cultural shift, but there's also an economic factor. The direct sales stores meant publishers could deal directly with readers, so they didn't have to sweat distributors who got complaints from rack sellers. And they could sell directly to adults, without worrying about kids seeing mature material. (Not just soft porn, but explicit violence: Akira as much as Omaha, & never mind XXXenophile.) It also meant you didn't need mass-marketing, since the customer was guaranteed: stuff was ordered by the customer in advance, & payment agreed (tho, AFAIK, still COD in all cases)--& here, unlike mass market, off the rack books, it's not the dealer who's agreeing, it's the actual reader/buyer.

 

[Tyler Ledbetter]

So what would Reagan be doing here? I'm assuming he still ran in 1976. Would he be the nominee in 1980?

 

[mr1940s]

It is possible that with a Democratic President, the neo-liberal revolution which had taken off in the 1970s could continue in the 1980s. Under President Carter you saw de-regulation of the Airline, Trucking and Railroad industries. If the Democrat who wins in 1980 is a centrist they could pursue de-regulation even with liberal majorities. Or if they are more to the left, it is likely that they will embrace some neo-liberal reforms.
A deciding factor could be how the 1981-1982 recession goes. If Voelker or a similar inflation hawk is appointed to the Federal Reserve, then it is likely there will be a recession in 1981-1982, even if there is a keynesian reflationary fiscal program. In the 1982 midterms, the Republicans are likely to do well. It is unlikely to be 1994 level but it could be enough to create a more conservative congress. In this environment you are less likely to see the Democratic President aggressively attacking unions, however there could be deregulation of some sectors of the economy.
There are several examples from OTL of center left parties implementing neoliberal policies. Their are the Labor parties of Australia and New Zealand, where their embrace of reform made them quite radical, in particular the rogernomics of NEw Zealand. Another example is France, where François Mitterrand entered promising to combat unemployment but pivoted to the right after he lost control of the legislative assembly. Who knows, maybe Reuben Askew could be America's Bob Hawk or Ted Kennedy America's François Mitterrand.

 

[Electric Monk]

So what would Reagan be doing here? I'm assuming he still ran in 1976. Would he be the nominee in 1980?

Many options: he doesn’t run because it looks like an easy Democratic victory over failure of Ford Administration and/or doesn’t quite want it enough anymore; he runs and is forced to the right against a nasty campaign versus Dole just as bad as ‘76; he is VP and tied to failed Ford Administration; he is President and it went badly; he is, most unlikely lol, defeated in the primaries; if you want darker he’s dead or injured. Not a big deal, plenty of possibilities for people working on timelines in this era.

 

[Lost the game]

What about John Glenn? Any chance we get an Astronaut president?

 

[Tyler Ledbetter]

What about John Glenn? Any chance we get an Astronaut president?

Apparently he ran as a conservative Democrat in 1984, anyone know more about it? What made him more conservative compared to the rest?

 

[V-J]

Apparently he ran as a conservative Democrat in 1984, anyone know more about it? What made him more conservative compared to the rest?

He was consciously running as a fuzzy moderate, contra Mondale, not a conservative per se. (If there was anyone who was running as a conservative, it was someone who this thread keeps obsessing over, Reubin Askew) And in 1983, people expected the nomination would be between Mondale and Glenn. The problem is that Glenn was a really awkward candidate, just not a natural campaign pol, who mis-stepped a lot, and couldn't really get a proper disciplined campaign going.

Glenn was a lot like Bill Richardson, in having a great resume which unfortunately never survived contact with reality. Not only do I not think he would win a 1980 alt nom - and his seat was up in 1980, so it's unlikely he runs - I think his chances are poor in any cycle. Particularly given how popular he was in Ohio, he's really more a running mate pick. (And indeed he was the runner up in 1988 for that spot)

Many options: he doesn’t run because it looks like an easy Democratic victory over failure of Ford Administration and/or doesn’t quite want it enough anymore; he runs and is forced to the right against a nasty campaign versus Dole just as bad as ‘76; he is VP and tied to failed Ford Administration; he is President and it went badly; he is, most unlikely lol, defeated in the primaries; if you want darker he’s dead or injured. Not a big deal, plenty of possibilities for people working on timelines in this era.

I don't think the Gipper is not running if we've had four years of Jerry, unless his health intervenes. 1980 is always going to be believed to be his last shot, given how much 'older' a seventy-something candidate was believed to be in an age of much lower life expectancy than today. Analogous to Bernie and Biden today.

And yeah, I think he likely wins that nomination, my belief resting mostly on the strength of his candidacy set against Dole of OTL possessing that same quality mentioned above in Glenn. It's not an accident that 1996 was the Bobster's third campaign for the nomination; both 1980 and 1988 were organisational nightmares. And I don't want to get into exploration of Ford's term, but there should be enough Movement transgressions there by 1980.

(Possibly controversial opinion: given how favourable the EC was to Republicans in this era, and with California potentially at his back, we shouldn't assume it would be a Democratic blowout, just a reverse OTL. Particularly if, as we've been speculating up to now, a lot could go differently in the 1977-1981 term.)