1930's Fascist Russia

[FillyofDelphi]

What about Kolchak? What would happen to him who declared himself as a "supreme ruler"?

My wager is he ends up with a knife in his back or an icepick in his skull at the bottom of a lake somewhere after getting politically out-manuvered in a bid for supreme power. His ego is FAR larger than his power base.

 

[Shadow1080]

My wager is he ends up with a knife in his back or an icepick in his skull at the bottom of a lake somewhere after getting politically out-manuvered in a bid for supreme power. His ego is FAR larger than his power base.

I see, it's just every alternate scenario I see people always keep telling Kolchak would've ruled etc and of course I keep doubting that.

 

[twistedirregular]

I see, it's just every alternate scenario I see people always keep telling Kolchak would've ruled etc and of course I keep doubting that.

Not gonna happen, considering Kolchak's main power base was in the Far East which had a small population of 8-9 million people and little industry. Any one in control of European Russia can reconquer the Russian Far East with superior manpower, natural resources and much more industry. If anything, either Wrangel or Denikin - most likely a military junta - will come to power in Petrograd with Grand Duke Nicolas as a nominal Tsar.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

I see, it's just every alternate scenario I see people always keep telling Kolchak would've ruled etc and of course I keep doubting that.

Well, in my opinion he's the one most likely to SURVIVE a White lose with a power base intact if there ends up with a White rump state; Siberia is the place closest too forgien succor, from a nation with stronger interests towards intervention (Japan), and farthest from the base of Bolshevik power, which could only be projected in limited quatities from the Trans-Siberian Railway. But taking total control? Unlikely.

 

[twistedirregular]

Well, in my opinion he's the one most likely to SURVIVE a White lose with a power base intact if there ends up with a White rump state; Siberia is the place closest too forgien succor, from a nation with stronger interests towards intervention (Japan), and farthest from the base of Bolshevik power, which could only be projected in limited quatities from the Trans-Siberian Railway. But taking total control? Unlikely.

Wouldn't it be more plausible for there to be a White rump state in Kamchatka? I doubt White Siberia will last long.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Wouldn't it be more plausible for there to be a White rump state in Kamchatka? I doubt White Siberia will last long.

Kamchatka isent remotely viable economically or useful enough on its own to get forgein support.

 

[BigBlueBox]

• Russia is no longer experiencing a civil war and looking like it might emerge as a Great Power again in a decade or two. Germany has noticed this

The loss of so much valuable land will ensure Russia can never challenge Germany on its own.

• Italy and Spain both saw civil wars between Fascist and Communist groups; in the former the country was split into two and not re-unified for decades while Franco-German intervention in Spain eliminated the fascist threat there (and not coincidentally much of the more extreme left-wing also)

A fascist Spain is a problem for France and the UK but not for Germany. Why would Germany send its troops to die for France?

 

[twistedirregular]

Kamchatka isent remotely viable economically or useful enough on its own to get forgein support.

What other regions could a White Russian state be established in? I was thinking Alaska but that feels too cliche.

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

The day-to-day realities of ruling an empire as large and diverse as Russia probably requires the Russian state to come to some kind of accommodation with its Buddhist and Muslim minorities. I don't see much reason to go after Kazakhs and Tatars.
Most political energy would probably be directed toward persecuting Jews, reclaiming Russian lands in Kresy and the Caucasus, and stamping out the national consciousness of slavic minorities.
It makes sense for Russia to "unify" the orthodox slavs by treating Belarusian and Ukrainian of Russian and promote the view that they are parts of a larger Russian nation. Removing the Soviet's interwar policies that attempted to mollify national aspirations would drastically change the history of Ukrainian nationalism, Belarusian national consciousness, and Polish foreign policy. OTL, the '20s were something of a golden decade for Ukrainian culture and national consciousness in the USSR.

Right. A Russian fascism would probably, like Ataturk and the Kurds, simply declare that there is no such thing as Ukrainians, Rusyns or Belarusians, that they're just Russians who were polonized by, well, the Poles (and probably the Jews, this is Russian ultranationalism we're talking about), and that the solution is simply to forcibly assimilate them into "true" Russian nationhood, which means things like forcibly "reuniting" the Eastern Catholic Churches with Moscow, banning the Ukrainian language, and things like that. An unholy trinity of Ataturk, Franco and Nicholas II.

 

[Analytical Engine]

What other regions could a White Russian state be established in? I was thinking Alaska but that feels too cliche.

The Maritime Province, with its capital in Kamchatka. However, such a state would be massively dependent on the Japanese for protection.

 

[twistedirregular]

The Maritime Province, with its capital in Kamchatka. However, such a state would be massively dependent on the Japanese for protection.

It would simply be a de-facto Japanese protectorate, no?

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Right. A Russian fascism would probably, like Ataturk and the Kurds, simply declare that there is no such thing as Ukrainians, Rusyns or Belarusians, that they're just Russians who were polonized by, well, the Poles (and probably the Jews, this is Russian ultranationalism we're talking about), and that the solution is simply to forcibly assimilate them into "true" Russian nationhood, which means things like forcibly "reuniting" the Eastern Catholic Churches with Moscow, banning the Ukrainian language, and things like that. An unholy trinity of Ataturk, Franco and Nicholas II.

This had precident; look at how the Russians treated/communicated with the Ruthanians in the years preceding WW I and the regions they occupied during the war.

 

[Shadow1080]

Right. A Russian fascism would probably, like Ataturk and the Kurds, simply declare that there is no such thing as Ukrainians, Rusyns or Belarusians, that they're just Russians who were polonized by, well, the Poles (and probably the Jews, this is Russian ultranationalism we're talking about), and that the solution is simply to forcibly assimilate them into "true" Russian nationhood, which means things like forcibly "reuniting" the Eastern Catholic Churches with Moscow, banning the Ukrainian language, and things like that. An unholy trinity of Ataturk, Franco and Nicholas II.

What would its economic power be through the 1930's and 1940's? How long would this Russian fascist regime last?

 

[FillyofDelphi]

What would its economic power be through the 1930's and 1940's? How long would this Russian fascist regime last?

That depends near entirely on international butterflies.

 

[Shadow1080]

That depends near entirely on international butterflies.

With so much pressure in forcing other people to be called Russians, wouldn't some kind of rebellion break out that would end up in collapse and break up like the Soviet Union?

 

[twistedirregular]

With so much pressure in forcing other people to be called Russians, wouldn't some kind of rebellion break out that would end up in collapse and break up like the Soviet Union?

It’s a possibility that Warlord Russia could happen but by the 30s/40s, the government in Petrograd might’ve put it down.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

With so much pressure in forcing other people to be called Russians, wouldn't some kind of rebellion break out that would end up in collapse and break up like the Soviet Union?

Rebellion? No. That's vastly overestimating the coordination and agreement among a scattered, ethnically lingustically ideologically and geohraphically splintered opposition. You may see acts of resistance, but these would be largely sporadic and localized and thus easily supressed. The USSR, remember, fell because of the organized defection of party elites of which Yeltsin was merely one example.

 

[Shadow1080]

Rebellion? No. That's vastly overestimating the coordination and agreement among a scattered, ethnically lingustically ideologically and geohraphically splintered opposition. You may see acts of resistance, but these would be largely sporadic and localized and thus easily supressed. The USSR, remember, fell because of the organized defection of party elites of which Yeltsin was merely one example.

So would it happen again in fascist Russia throughout the rest of the 20th century?

 

[twistedirregular]

So would it happen again in fascist Russia throughout the rest of the 20th century?

Probably but it will most likely not be successful.

 

[Shadow1080]

Probably but it will most likely not be successful.

Are you saying that 2018 present-day Russia would have the same fascistic regime? Even in Spain, after the death of Franco, ended up having a new government. How would fascism survive to present-day?