Isaac's Empire 2.0

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Basileus Giorgios

Megas Dux ton Kypraion said:
OK, so here's the view from the Golden Khersonese:

First up, and since I did not comment on Chapter 12 before now, I am curious about the 3,000 Hungarians who split off from the western Tagmata and made their way back to Hungary. They are followers of the teachings of John of Florence, opponent of the Eighth Ecumenical Council. So far, following the Unification of the Church, things have been stable in Christendom. But does this religious splinter group, now operating in Hungary, end up "infecting" the north and west of Europe with the heresy that ends up leading to the formation of the Parisian Orthodox Church? If so, it would be interesting for the "spark" of heresy to come via Hungary and not more populous centres like Italy, southern France or Spain.

Also it might be fun (and ironic with OTL) if the western/northern church ends up being called 'Orthodox' and the one based in Constantinople and Rome ends up being called 'Catholic'. This would perhaps neatly solve the problem of the term 'Uniate', which various readers have pointed out is a rather inelegant term.



I like the theological foreshadowing that this sort of language from Roman history introduces...:)



Like this opening paragraph, which summarises what happened then goes on to explain how: nice technique!

Generally, I like the sense you convey in this and recent chapters that Roman History is little more than a succession of palace plottings, manoeuverings, coups, executions and triumphs of certain elite people based in the court or armies of Constantinople. The urban mob also has a role so this all feels like the "classic" Eastern Roman Empire as it truly was - with the commenting historians realistically showing the same obsessions. As the 'Romaic Renaissance', or whatever you want to call it, slowly comes about, we should get more diverse historical perspectives and a stronger feel for life inside the Empire outside of Constantinople. I for one would like to see greater focus on Italy and - bearing in mind what is coming - I'm sure we'll get that.



Does this mean that the Grand Duchy of Cyprus is being set up, or not quite yet?



God, what a grisly and depraved end. One question though: why are various imperial personages being first blinded then executed on top of that? Usually blinding in Byzantium was a signal that someone was being made unfit to occupy high office, but was otherwise being kept alive, probably for exile far away. The fact that the blindings are mere precursors to execution seems inordinately cruel. Perhaps this is a sign of the unusually tense and high stakes at play in all these power battles of this period?

Also in the previous chapter you mentioned Michael VIII's lack of resolution being down to his grief at a stillborn daughter. Medieval people were quite inured to death in childbirth so this 'humanism' of Michael's seems a little at odds with how people viewed a human that had barely come into the world; perhaps Michael was just a bit soft-headed.



What was this general playing at with this marriage? He must know that a Patriarch cannot marry and stay a patriarch; also vows taken under duress would not be thought of as true marriage. Will the Patriarch's reputation be rehabilitated after death because this is quite a great shame and stain on the sanctity of the Holy Office? By the way are the blinded Patriarch and his 'wife' dispatched in the City, or do they somehow survive?



Nice turn of phrase! :)

Oh, and one last thing: it would be good if we could see the map of Europe recently posted posted again but this time with the names of the various states labelled.
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Thanks for your thoughts- it's been too long since I've last had your comments on an Isaac's Empire piece!

Regarding Italy and the West more broadly: yes, that'll come. Indeed, I'm thinking of taking a break from Eirene in the next chapter and looking at what's going on in Western Europe, specifically in France. But that can maybe wait until the Empress is safely dead and buried. What do others here think?

The Ducate of Cyprus has not been set up quite yet. Evagoras will be the first Grand Duke, though, I don't think I'm giving away too much to disclose that!

As for the blindings and marriages- yes, I did it to convey a sense of savagery being unleashed upon Constantinople in that bloody year. The marriages part in particular was inspired by the (possibly apocryphal) story about Constantine V forcing monks and nuns to marry one another in a public ceremony of humiliation of the iconophiles in the Hippodrome. I would suggest this is similar, with Patriarch and pretender being forced into the ceremony surrounded by jeering soldiers. Both are, of course, despatched soon afterwards.

So, I'll open this up to the floor. Do we want to see more Eirene in the next chapter, or would the barbarians of the West do more to tickle everyone's fancy? :)
 
Utgard96

Utgard96

The Franks were hardly barbarians by this point, except from the Constantinopolitan perspective. They wore beards and pants, yes, but they had art, culture and orderly governance in just as much (or nearly) as the Romans did.
 

Basileus Giorgios

There'll be Norman, English, Scottish, Francian and German barbarians- oh my! ;)

Essentially we'll be covering the events that in the first Isaac's Empire were represented as "The Fall of France". Having written that when I was sixteen, it's going to get quite substantially revised, thanks to some ideas from LSCatilina that Megas & I hammered into a coherent whole during an IE brainstorming session back in November. Hopefully the results will be up soon, but I do have a dissertation to be doing!
 
Utgard96

Utgard96

Good. The original version of this felt a bit odd to me, since it basically consisted of the English and the Germans saying "These guys are heretics, so we should divide their entire country up between us except for a narrow strip of the very wealthiest parts of it which we're giving to the Pope", and it's nice to hear that hopefully the new version of it will feel more plausible.

Which reminds me; it's the late 12th century, so I finally have ideas about Sweden! I'll send some of them along to you in a while.
 

Basileus Giorgios

Ares96 said:
Good. The original version of this felt a bit odd to me, since it basically consisted of the English and the Germans saying "These guys are heretics, so we should divide their entire country up between us except for a narrow strip of the very wealthiest parts of it which we're giving to the Pope", and it's nice to hear that hopefully the new version of it will feel more plausible.

Which reminds me; it's the late 12th century, so I finally have ideas about Sweden! I'll send some of them along to you in a while.
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Look forward to it! Might we get a map at some stage too?
 
The Court at Constantinople in 1187
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    Tongera said:
    How exactly was France divided last time?
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    Implausibly.

    I've just got madly obsessed with the A Song of Ice and Fire books this past week, and so I've done a brief summary of the Imperial Court in 1187 in the style of those' books summaries of their own courts. So far it's just the two ruling families of Komnenos and Nafpliotis, but I'm considering adding various other figures too, if people seem to find this interesting!

    family.png
     
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    • Yorel

    Basileus Giorgios said:
    I've just got madly obsessed with the Game of Thrones books this past week, and so I've done a brief summary of the Imperial Court in 1187 in the style of those' books summaries of their own courts. So far it's just the two ruling families of Komnenos and Nafpliotis, but I'm considering adding various other figures too, if people seem to find this interesting!
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    Very interesting resumé. Also, I think the fact you love a Game of Thrones is a bit shown in the last update, especially with the bloodletting.

    Great, now I am tempted to call this timeline A Game of Purple :D
     

    EmperorSimeon

    The first timeline was epic. This one is getting interesting. Just wondering will the rhomans still occupy the same territory like Australia or could we possibly see them setup a new Constantinople in the Americas in the future also.Either way look forward to another epic update.
     
    The Normans from 1142-1191
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    • Basileus Giorgios

    Hopefully this will provide readers with their fill of hot barbarian action. ;) Apologies in advance for what is quite a Henry-fest!

    The accession in 1142 of King Robert II marked the arrival of a measure of stability to the English throne for the first time since the arrival of his great-grandfather William of Normandy[1] eighty years previously[2]. For one thing, unlike all three previous kings, his male-line ancestors, Robert came to the throne as an adult, a man of thirty four, albeit one who had spent the past twelve years of his life as a captive of his murderously paranoid father Richard, the Tyrant King. Despite this, Robert Ii quickly proved himself able to take on the legacy of his father, including most notably a superbly drilled and disciplined professional army, whose support he won shortly after taking the throne in a dashing campaign against his father in law, Henry III of Francia[3], which saw the Francian crown forced to acknowledge Norman control of much of the southern coast of the Channel, and Brittany besides, and furthermore provide Robert with a crown princess, Bertha, to marry.

    A painful thorn nonetheless remained in Robert II’s side even after the conclusion of the savage war that had flared up in 1143 in Francia following the death of the late King Henry II[4]. North of his English holdings lurked his wily uncle William of Northumbria, one of the few men who had defied Richard the Tyrant and lived. In 1146, as the court celebrated the birth of a daughter, Matila, the Queen Bertha, William attacked, wreaking bloody devastation across central England and taking the garrison of Nottingham captive. A reprisal campaign in 1147 fell flat, and the following year William repeated his feats of 1146, this time seizing Chester[5] while the King of England rejoiced in the arrival of his son and heir, Henry. William would remain a maddening problem, inciting a revolt against Robert by the English army in the autumn of 1149 while the King was away in Normandy and supplies ran low. It would take two long years before Robert II could once again take full authority in his realm, and the effort of imposing loyalty ensured a further campaign against William would be out of the question. The Duke of Northumbria was therefore able to die peacefully in his bed in the spring of 1156, and his own son, William II, was soon busily reviving the dignity of the old Saxon kingdom of Northumbria, demanding and receiving a crown from a cowed Papacy in exchange for his acceptance of the decisions of the Third Council of Nicaea[6]. Such an uncompromisingly ambitious approach appears never to have occurred to the solid and traditional Robert II of England.

    On balance, though, Robert could judge his reign a success when he did in 1159, at the age of fifty one. The English coffers were full, and his army remained the envy of Western Europe, having just begun at the time of the king’s death a campaign across the Irish Sea. Robert’s son Henry I was only eleven years old at the time of his accession, but in the capable of hands of his mother Bertha the realm continued to prosper. Herself a pawn of marital alliances, Bertha made sure to guarantee her son’s safety through them, marrying off her eldest daughter Matilda to Henry[7], son of the German Emperor Frederick, and promising Henry’s younger brother William to the daughter of Malcolm V, the King of Scots and the biggest ally of the Northumbrian kings. Henry was thus able to gradually take power as the 1160s unfolded into a peaceful realm, an irony given his later reputation.

    For, before long, Henry of England was becoming hailed as “Henry the Conqueror”. In 1168, at the age of twenty, he had smashed the Northumbrian army at the Battle of Pendle, and forced his cousin William II to pay tribute to the English crown, and between 1171 and 1175 he busily mopped up resistance amongst the Welsh princes with the aid of his equally talented brother William[8]. His greatest triumph, though, was yet to come.

    For despite the efforts of the English king’s great-grandfather Henry II of Francia seventy years previously, the male line of the Capetians of Francia was running perilously thin. Henry III had no sons, and many had presumed the crown would ultimately go to his young nephew Louis of Orleans. But Louis had died in 1177, leaving his father and namesake, the Francian king’s brother, with no discernable male heir. Problems began to brew as the grip of Henry III progressively slackened over Francia in the last years of that king’s life. In 1178, the young Duke of Aquitaine, irked by a perceived snub from the royal court at Paris transferred his allegiance to the English Henry, to be followed two years later by his counterpart the Count of Anjou, both of whom won themselves marital alliances for their trouble[9]. As Francia increasingly looked to a new champion, Paris could only watch and wait to see what happened.

    Henry III of West Francia died peacefully in March 1182, at the age of seventy one. The crown passed to his equally elderly brother Louis VI, but Louis was a weak-willed man, dominated by his ambitious sons in law. War came quickly, as various other claimants began to press their claims to the throne. The fighting was savage, but in the end, there could only be one winner once the German Emperor Frederick II threw his men and money behind his uncle, Henry of England. The now elderly queen mother Bertha could enjoy the spectacle of her son and grandson working together to claim the Francian throne, and Henry III was duly crowned King of the Franks in autumn 1183, following the apparently peaceful death of Louis VI, having defeated his rivals.

    There was, even for Henry the Conqueror, a price to be paid. Frederick was a wealthy and powerful monarch, and his support had been invaluable in gaining control of Francia. The price would be the cession of claims of authority of the Francian crown of a huge swathe of the eastern parts of the kingdom, with the royal domain itself partitioned. Paris would no longer sit snugly at the centre of Francia- instead, it would become a town close to the frontier between the Norman and the German worlds. Champagne, Bourgogne, and Flanders now increasingly began to turn towards the Teutonic world, and a new power in the land, the Bishop of Laon, a former Frankish capital to which Frederick III retreated in 1188 having thoroughly established his power over his vassals.

    The Francian barons, of course, were unused to bowing the knee to any master, and it would take many years of war before the settlement of the 1180s could begin to calm down. In 1186, the Count of Toulouse broke away altogether, recognising his inevitable status as a very junior partner in the new Norman/German axis that divided Francia. It would not be long before a king sat in the halls of Toulouse, one who would demand the respect of his peers throughout the region. Nor was the division of Francia inevitable- in 1191, war had almost broken out between Henry the Conqueror and Frederick following the defection of several nobles notionally allied to the Germans. But, broadly, by 1190, the final shape of the old Roman province of Gaul had been hammered out. Only one piece of the puzzle remained to slot in- the rise of the Patriarchate of Paris.

    [1] OTL’s William the Conqueror

    [2] As a quick recap, here the English throne passed in 1066 to Edgar the Aetheling, a great-nephew of Edward the Confessor. Edgar’s shaky regime was quickly forced to call in Norman assistance, though, and the young king was forced to marry a daughter of Duke William in 1070. As soon as the marriage had produced a healthy son, Edgar was disposed of, with both Duke William and his son and namesake William Rufus serving as regent for Edgar’s young son Robert I.

    [3] I’m deliberately shying away from using the term “France” or “French” here.

    [4] Henry’s first wife, Eleanor the Occitan, provided only daughters and the marriage was frosty, prompting speculations of foul play after her death and replacement in 1108 by Beatrix of Blois, who promptly provided two healthy sons. When the elder of these, Henry III, took the throne in February 1143, the Occitan nobles rose up against him.

    [5] At this time, Manchester and Liverpool were very small villages, with Chester being much the most important town of north-west England, distantly followed by Lancaster, Salford and Preston. Here, Lancaster is in Northumbrian territory and Preston is a hulking fortress town.

    [6] The Council had taken place in 1150, but was always viewed with suspicion in northern and western Europe, as we shall see.

    [7] We are going to end up with Henrys in power simultaneously in England, France, and Germany, I’m afraid. Sorry for the confusion!

    [8] Wales had been partly subdued by Richard the Tyrant in 1141, but in Robert’s reign the grip had slackened to the extent that in 1170, a Welsh prince had dared name himself king. Henry the Conqueror proved himself Richard’s grandson when it came to defeating the revolt.

    [9] Following the death of his first wife in childbirth in 1169, Henry remained unmarried, before finally accepting the hand in marriage of Adela of Aquitaine, the sister of Duke Philip. The surviving daughter of Henry’s first marriage, Adela, was married in 1181 at the age of twelve to Count Fulk of Anjou.
     
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