“The Fancy” Mk XII anti submarine 21” acoustic homing torpedo

“The Fancy”

Mk XII anti submarine 21” homing torpedo



The Fancy (According to the Collins Dictionary)


in British English

archaic

“those who follow a particular sport, esp prize fighting”



U125 – 220 NMs North West of the Azores 29th Dec 1942 – 13:30 hrs GMT

The crew hardly dared to breathe as the sound of yet another Tommy escort closing in on their position the harsh sounds of its Asdic pulses could be heard through the hull.

Close enough that its thrashing propeller could now be heard gaining in volume with every second

‘Hard to port, make revolutions 90, down planes’ the Captain snapped in a harsh whisper that the crew immediately rushed to obey

This was the 5th attack in the last hour and the captain had used every trick in the book to evade the depth charge attacks.

So far he had been successful, with the only damage being to the crews increasingly frayed nerves – the boat accelerating from its ‘I’m an innocent hole in the ocean’ through to 7 knots and dropped through 100 meters down to 140 meters and a course change that went through 90 odd degrees before the first depth charges splashed into the sea somewhere above them

This attack while closer than the rest was also a failure with the depth charge pattern above and somewhere off to the submarines starboard quarter too far away to cause any damage.

‘Return to course, reduce revolution to 50, maintain depth’ Ordered the 25 year old commanding officer as the submarine slowed to steerage speed at a depth of 145 meters

‘Hopefully the Tommies will tire of this game’

Despite the relief among the crew that they had survived another attack, the frustration that the Convoy that they had tried to attack was now past them was also evident.

Little chance for them to now get into an attack position, not with the batteries half exhausted and the need to now overhaul the convoy while still needing to throw off the ‘shepherds’ would probably involve a long night on the surface while they recharged the batteries and used their higher surface speed to get ahead of the expect course in time for an attack at dawn.

Just the small matter of shaking off the 2 escorts that where trying to sink them

The Captain gave a wolfish grin to the crew in the control room

“We will have to let them live another day and catch up overnight then we will..”

He was interrupted by the senior rating on the Hydrophones who had just replaced the headset (which he had removed upon hearing the first splashes of depth charges in order to save his ear drums)

“Captain high speed screws from astern…sounds like…sounds like a torpedo?”

The Captain leaned in and put on the 2nd headset and nodded at his senior sonar man in agreement

“Bearing constant – its coming right at us”

Captain Folkers stomach went cold as a terrible thought occurred to him - he knew of developments in 'smart' homing torpedoes in the German Navy - could this be...?

“Maximum revolutions, full right rudder”

This time no attempt at silence

The submarine slowly accelerated from near steerage rapidly up to 4 knots then through 5 knots then more slowly to 6.

“Bearing still constant, torpedo closing, Captain its like it knows where we are”

7 knots…….7 and a half

Folkers blinked – unsure of what to do – but one thing was clear – the torpedo was definitely hunting them

“Up planes, Blow main ballast, get us on the surface, NOW”

8 knots, the hull creaking along with the roar of water being forced from the main tanks, as the submarine slowly began to ascend.

“Torpedo very close, bearing constant”

8 and a bit knots, depth slowly climbed through 100 meters, 95 meters

“Brace for coll..”

The Mk XII “Fancy” 21” Electric torpedo passed slightly below the stern of U125 before its magnetic detonator tripped the fuse and the 365 Kilograms torpex warhead detonated close enough to crumple the hull of the Type IXC Uboat, almost breaking it in 2 and merciful killing the entire crew nearly instantly.

The now twisted tube that had once been U125 and the home of 48 men and now their tomb began its long decent towards the Atlantic floor.



This obviously slightly ‘fictional account’ regarding the last moments of U125 during the afternoon of 29th Dec 1942 was the first use of the Royal Navy’s first Anti Submarine Acoustic homing Torpedo known the MK XII or more commonly 'The Fancy'

Fired by the J class Destroyer HMS Javelin the weapon remarkably, considering this was the first ‘war shot’ of the weapon worked perfectly.

Based on the new MK XI electric powered torpedo designed to provide RN destroyers with a wakeless torpedo the MK XII differed in that it used an experimental acoustic homing system that operated on the 24khz range that was common to U-boats – this allowed the weapon to track a potential target.

The Torpedo’s speed was reduced to 12 knots to allow the homing system to function and as such had a range of well over 10,000 yards compared to half that for the MK XI

Unlike the later US MK 24 Fido ‘The Fancy’ could not change depth but was usually set to 100 meters depth (this to also ensure that it did not attack the launching vessel or any other surface vessels nearby) the expectation being that the magnetic detector fuse and 365 Kilo Torpex (which was the equivalent of 550 kilos of TNT) warhead would cause enough over pressure to sink a submarine so long as it was not more than 100 odd meters above or below the target when it detonated.

This another difference to the smaller air dropped Fido that used a much smaller warhead and contact fuse.

Like the Fido the Fancy had a very high success rate of almost 20% with what is thought to be a total of 52 Enemy Submarines sunk and 17 damaged (5 of those forced to surface and subsequently sunk or captured) out of 342 war shots.

Although initially husbanded into mid 1943 due to the early low rate production of the weapon later tactics emerged where the weapon was used to flush a suspected or known submarine where it would be attacked with other weapons or another Fancy.

Even an unsuccessful engagement would force a U-boat to use up a large part of its battery charge effectively nullifying it in the short term.

As reports of this weapon reached the German Navy’s commanders the weapon gained something of a reputation and caused many Uboat commanders to be less aggressive when attacking a convoy

Also at least a dozen u boats tried to use the tactic of surfacing when fired on by a Fancy and trying to fight it out with the escort vessels and in all but one case, lost to the more heavily armed Corvettes and Destroyer escorts.

Almost 2000 MK XII ‘Fancy’ torpedoes were built by VJ day and while the MK XIV was placed into production (which was able to change depth etc) in 1945 the ‘Fancy’ was a good enough system and remained the principal Destroyer ASW system along side the Hedgehog and Squid mortars for the Royal Navy well into the 50s
 
Don’t think 100’ is close enough for 365 lbs of explosives to damage “break” a U Boat hull.
Why electric? Boats won’t be able to see the exhaust trail.
If 80% of the targets survive, it will become the game of measure/countermeasure. The surviving boats will report the new weapons, and how they survived. Boats will figure out to just change depth. The Germans might figure out launching noise makers like subs use today. What if a boat just stops it’s propulsion? No screw noise. What if a boat just goes under a thermocline? The weapon won’t know where it is. It’s an interesting concept, but to be effective, it must track the boat through depth changes.
 
Don’t think 100’ is close enough for 365 lbs of explosives to damage “break” a U Boat hull.
Why electric? Boats won’t be able to see the exhaust trail.
If 80% of the targets survive, it will become the game of measure/countermeasure. The surviving boats will report the new weapons, and how they survived. Boats will figure out to just change depth. The Germans might figure out launching noise makers like subs use today. What if a boat just stops it’s propulsion? No screw noise. What if a boat just goes under a thermocline? The weapon won’t know where it is. It’s an interesting concept, but to be effective, it must track the boat through depth changes.
Thanks for the questions

Kilos not pounds - so that would be 805 lbs and given its TORPEX which is 1.5X the explosive power of TNT its 1207.5 pounds of TNT Equivalent

A Depth charge with a 131 pound TNT explosive warhead caused damage if it exploded within about 16 meters (and that would be enough damage to force a sub to surface and lethal if half that.

So while the 'Fancy' is almost 10 times the explosive that would not translate into 10 x the lethal distance but it would be significantly greater - so perhaps 100 meter is too great?

A U-boat had an operating depth of about 200 odd feet - any more than that and a Type VII or IX ran the risk of exceeding crush depth so I picked a depth in between (I realise I said Meters not feet)

Electric because it is quieter and therefore better for the sensor to hear the enemy sub

It would not be a case of 80% of attacked subs survive - only that 80% of war shots did not result in a kill - follow up attacks would have been made using more Torpedoes or other ASW weapons - depth charges and Hedgehog etc.

A sub contact could be repeatedly attacked sometimes for many hours

Thermoclines depending on where - how deep and temperature etc - start at between 200 m (600 feet) to 1000 m (3000 ft) and well out of reach of Uboats - also I am not sure they were that well understood in 1942?

What countermeasures did the Germans create to defend against FIDO?

I am not aware of any countermeasure other than the late war rubber tile experiments?
 
I’m at work so my research is limited. I thought that U Boats could go down to around 750’. Several sites say that. Test and Crush depth are 2 different things.

Looks like all combatants knew about the thermocline in WWII. It can be more shallow then 600 feet.

An electric torpedo is not quiet. You said it yourself in the scenario. It’s the small fast turning propellers that make the noise. A MK 48 works just fine and it runs on Otto Fuel.

My point on the 80% was that some would survive. This being an ATL they would develop countermeasures for the new weapon.

Not saying this weapon would or would not work. I just happen to know a little bit about sub operations and look at it from their viewpoint. It would definitely need serious upgrades to continue operating until the 1950s.
 
The MK 48 entered service in 1972

I do note that all previous AS Acoustic torpedo's such as the MK 24 FIDO and the sub launched Mk37 which was replaced by the Mk 48 and the MK 44 which was electric replaced by the Otto fuel MK 46 in the 60s

Also the war and post war weapons where all slow - 12 knots the MK 37 was 17 knots - my understanding is that any faster and the then sensors become ineffective

The later weapons Mk46 and Mk 48 are capable of active homing and in the case of the MK 48 also wire guided - this coupled with several decades of sensor improvement and 'learnings' allow for such weapons 25-40 years after the FIDO and 'Fancy'

I am not sure why all the ASW Torpedoes were electric during and in the decades following WW2 but it drove my decision for the MK 12 being an Electric fish

Absolutely some would survive but I am not aware of any countermeasures introduced for the FIDO which also enjoyed a similar success rate

That's not to say that the Germans would not!

I imagine that the MK XII would be improved throughout the war to the point that it is not fully replaced by the MK MK XIV - which I mention but do not give any information on but is effectively where the MK XII has improved so much that the manufactures give it a new number.

I am now torn on having the weapon have depth control?
 
I was reading that the FIDO also used a 24kHz acoustic homing system. But why is 24kHz the key number? Was that just for U-boats in general or applied to all subs?

The acoustic number is a ship's acoustic field ='s a sum of all acoustic components (e.g.., ship's depth, type, displacement, speed, number and shape of her propeller, shape of her underwater). Seems like it would be specific and the less specific would cause misses...just wondering
 
The MK 48 entered service in 1972

I do note that all previous AS Acoustic torpedo's such as the MK 24 FIDO and the sub launched Mk37 which was replaced by the Mk 48 and the MK 44 which was electric replaced by the Otto fuel MK 46 in the 60s

Also the war and post war weapons where all slow - 12 knots the MK 37 was 17 knots - my understanding is that any faster and the then sensors become ineffective

The later weapons Mk46 and Mk 48 are capable of active homing and in the case of the MK 48 also wire guided - this coupled with several decades of sensor improvement and 'learnings' allow for such weapons 25-40 years after the FIDO and 'Fancy'

I am not sure why all the ASW Torpedoes were electric during and in the decades following WW2 but it drove my decision for the MK 12 being an Electric fish

Absolutely some would survive but I am not aware of any countermeasures introduced for the FIDO which also enjoyed a similar success rate

That's not to say that the Germans would not!

I imagine that the MK XII would be improved throughout the war to the point that it is not fully replaced by the MK MK XIV - which I mention but do not give any information on but is effectively where the MK XII has improved so much that the manufactures give it a new number.

I am now torn on having the weapon have depth control?
Countermeasures could involve acoustic decoys, which in turn would be defeated by better sensors that are harder to fool. Just maybe a counter missile could be developed or a tweak to the prop design - maybe a secondary or tertiary prop that can be switched on to make the sound more variable (as a bonus it would keep the sandworms away).
 
Countermeasures could involve acoustic decoys, which in turn would be defeated by better sensors that are harder to fool. Just maybe a counter missile could be developed or a tweak to the prop design - maybe a secondary or tertiary prop that can be switched on to make the sound more variable (as a bonus it would keep the sandworms away).
Yeah totally

However other than a ‘noise maker’ which was more about fooling asdic I cannot find any specific decoy produced by the Germans

I know the British rapidly introduced ‘foxers’ to defeat German homing torpedos (and this degraded their own sensors while active) but the Germans did not do anything when FIDO started to be used.

Also with the introduction of Hedgehogs and then FIDO and improved methods of detecting submarines along with vast improvements in the overall quality of escort crews (and numbers) introducing another weapon system such as the introduction of ‘fancy’ is not ever going to be a war winning weapon on its own.

I am rolling back on the idea of having no depth control other than preventing it from attacking anything above a certain depth.

What do people think?
 
There were very strict rules of engagement for FIDO which drastically lowered the chance of a boat that survived an encounter with it understanding what the weapon used was. This and the high success rate reduced the chance for the Germans to know enough to develop countermeasures.

As far as why the homing torpedoes were electric propelled. They needed a battery to power the sensors anyway so why have two power sources taking up space. It was simpler to make a battery large enough to provide propulsion and power for the sensors.
 
There were very strict rules of engagement for FIDO which drastically lowered the chance of a boat that survived an encounter with it understanding what the weapon used was. This and the high success rate reduced the chance for the Germans to know enough to develop countermeasures.

As far as why the homing torpedoes were electric propelled. They needed a battery to power the sensors anyway so why have two power sources taking up space. It was simpler to make a battery large enough to provide propulsion and power for the sensors.
That makes perfect sense thank you
 
Yeah totally

However other than a ‘noise maker’ which was more about fooling asdic I cannot find any specific decoy produced by the Germans

I know the British rapidly introduced ‘foxers’ to defeat German homing torpedos (and this degraded their own sensors while active) but the Germans did not do anything when FIDO started to be used.

Also with the introduction of Hedgehogs and then FIDO and improved methods of detecting submarines along with vast improvements in the overall quality of escort crews (and numbers) introducing another weapon system such as the introduction of ‘fancy’ is not ever going to be a war winning weapon on its own.

I am rolling back on the idea of having no depth control other than preventing it from attacking anything above a certain depth.

What do people think?
While reading your reply, it occurred to me that any counter measure that produces extra noise puts the sub in greater danger of detection. The noisy decoy at least moves away from the sub, but it's still pretty much shouting out loud "don't look over here" - and confirms that the sub is present.

Developing countermeasures is harder than it looks!
 
While reading your reply, it occurred to me that any counter measure that produces extra noise puts the sub in greater danger of detection. The noisy decoy at least moves away from the sub, but it's still pretty much shouting out loud "don't look over here" - and confirms that the sub is present.

Developing countermeasures is harder than it looks!
Yes and subject to increasingly effective ASW weapons such as Hedgehog!
 
Its basically a bigger, faster fido. They used the torpedo tubes for the 'one ton' depthcharge, so I cant see any issues except setting a minimum depth of, say, 100feet. What is pehaps more interesting is a homing 21" torpedo - the Japanese woulnt be happy with this
 
Thanks for the questions

Kilos not pounds - so that would be 805 lbs and given its TORPEX which is 1.5X the explosive power of TNT its 1207.5 pounds of TNT Equivalent

A Depth charge with a 131 pound TNT explosive warhead caused damage if it exploded within about 16 meters (and that would be enough damage to force a sub to surface and lethal if half that.

So while the 'Fancy' is almost 10 times the explosive that would not translate into 10 x the lethal distance but it would be significantly greater - so perhaps 100 meter is too great?


Unlikely.

Inverse square rule.

Need to quadruple charge to double the effective radius.

10x square root is roughly 3
3x16 = 48m
 
The biggest problem with acoustic homing torpedo's is that the higher the speed they travel the lesser the range of the seeker head.

WW2 U-Boats had relatively low underwater speeds and this made a slow self guiding torpedo possible.
 
Unlikely.

Inverse square rule.

Need to quadruple charge to double the effective radius.

10x square root is roughly 3
3x16 = 48m
Yes I did the math as well - it does not add up at all

I am ditching the lack of depth control idea - it will be effectively a ship launched larger longer ranged FIDO

I will rewrite it later - cheers for the input
 
Yes I did the math as well - it does not add up at all

I am ditching the lack of depth control idea - it will be effectively a ship launched larger longer ranged FIDO

I will rewrite it later - cheers for the input

Early post war asw torpedoes spiral down in a cork screw to acquire their targets
 
Mk44

The vacuum tube-based guidance system is more sophisticated than earlier torpedoes, using pre-launch settings enabling an initial search depth of 50, 150, 250, 450, 650 or 900 feet (15, 46, 76, 137, 198 or 274 m) as well as a search floor at 150, 250, 450, 650 or 900 feet (46, 76, 137, 198 or 274 m) as well as a maximum dive/climb angle of 4.5, 6 or 7 degrees. On impacting the water the torpedo either runs out for 1,000 yards (910 m) or performs a dive at a 30-degree angle to the search depth. After completing this it may perform a flat turn and begins a helical search pattern proceeding up or down until it hits either the minimum depth of 50 yards (46 m) or the search floor. When it hits either top or bottom, it performs a flat turn and begins to execute the search in reverse. It continues executing this search until it either finds a target or exhausts its six-minute endurance
 
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