Random question: After the US annexed northern VA at Mount Vernon were there any large-scale population transfers of Confederate citizens south? I'm thinking something along the lines of how the USSR made Germans living in East Prussia in 1944-1945 move west to Germany proper.

Or, if it wasn't explicit (or even implicit) American policy, did the vast majority of Confederate civilians living in say Fairfax County just pack up and move south when the Confederate army retreated south towards Fredericksburg in 1915/1916?

So I guess my overall question is are the newly annexed parts of Maryland more or less empty of Confederate civilians as of mid-1917 or will there have to be some sort of assimilation program/policy?
I was thinking this same question, both for the annexed parts of Virginia and for any CS citizens in Arizona Territory...
I don’t think ethnically cleansing Fairfax/Arizona of CS citizens is explicit US policy, but I’d imagine a good number would just bail anyways, especially in the former.

Bear in mind though Fairfax only had like 20k residents in 1910 and with that area being an active war zone for three years a lot of civilians probably fled ahead of the Army and then just never returned post-annexations.
 
I was thinking this same question, both for the annexed parts of Virginia and for any CS citizens in Arizona Territory...
I know the author said that a large number of Confederates in Arizona fled east into Texas, where they went post-war, *very* good question*.

As for the gained areas in the east, I'm not sure how many civilians would have stayed in Fairfax during the war, it was both heavily fought over *and* under Union Control at the end of the war. The confederates on OTL Delmarva may have left, but culturally, I'm guessing they stayed similar to their Maryland neighbors on the eastern shore. If there was any sort of population transfer it probably was in areas somewhat closer to West Virginia that is too hilly for the type of back and forth closer to the sea. The part of the Shenandoah valley that did become part of the US is probably in that category as well. I'm not sure there would be *that* much population transfer in regards to the Florida Keys.
 
That would absolutely be the smart play for Paris…

For this exact reason, but Italy also has beautiful visually and excellent defensible borders which they can sit back on and let France elan itself to death on

Will do! I’ll have some terms i need translated ahead of the CEW
And other than the German Austrian border, most of the conflict will remind people more of the Virginia Front of the recent GAW, than anything else. The German/Austrian border will be more like Eastern Tennessee.
OTOH, as long as the Russians stay out, there will be *nothing* equivalent to the "Arizona/El Paso" front, there just isn't enough room for that type of fighting.

Hmm. Only counting the parts of the countries in Europe (so France includes Corsica, but not Algeria, etc) which is larger: The land area of the Confederacy post-GAW or the land areas of *all* the combatants in he CEW?
 
I don’t think ethnically cleansing Fairfax/Arizona of CS citizens is explicit US policy, but I’d imagine a good number would just bail anyways, especially in the former.

Bear in mind though Fairfax only had like 20k residents in 1910 and with that area being an active war zone for three years a lot of civilians probably fled ahead of the Army and then just never returned post-annexations.
An ATL in this one. Arizona applies for Statehood in 1909 rather than waiting...

Also, with Texas leaving the Confederacy has the same problem as the US did. Remove the star from the flag?
 
The People's Prime Minister: Thomas Crerar's Remarkable Canadian Life
"...fundamental differences; the Drury faction of the United Farmers of Ontario was inherently pragmatic, whereas the Morrison faction was committed, wholly, to being a party of farmers and farmers only, papering over internal policy disagreements with a dogmatic belief that agrarianism would win in otherwise Liberal farm constituencies.

Crerar wasn't convinced, and as he was the most important figure in UF circles he leant his expertise where it could come. On a rainy, near-freezing Ontario morning on March 3, 1918 in Berlin, Ontario, [1] he denounced "the short-sighted limitations of narrow political constituencies" and pointed out that the Tories dominated Canadian politics by way of sucking as many voters into their ranks as possible (often through social organizations such as churches, Orange Lodges, and local societies). "To exclude a fellow traveler on account of geography or vocation," he warned cryptically, "would be to cut off our own hand as we reach out to the Canadian people in solidarity!"

Crerar seldom critiqued his co-partisans by name, but one did not have to read between the lines to determine that he was speaking directly at Morrison and chiding him for his staunch determination to keep the UFO a single-issue party; Bracken quipped later that "single-issue will mean single-digits" in terms of votes and seats. Crerar may have been a Manitoban, but people listened when he spoke, and his advocacy in favor of Drury's big-tent position on reaching out to Independent Labour MLAs in legislative assemblies was clear as day, especially on the heels of the 1917 elections that suggested that there may be some weakening of the Tories' strength in rural ridings.

Moreso than words, though, his position was buffeted by what politicians responded to more than anything - winning. The 1918 Manitoban general election saw the UFM collected ten out of forty-eight seats in the Legislative Assembly; Independent Labour candidates won four. The Tories lost their outright majority, and this meant that these third parties now held the balance of power in Winnipeg. Bracken won the riding of The Pas, making him the clear chief figure of the party. With his loyal friend in Winnipeg, Crerar thus held a tremendous amount of direct power.

"We are a political party now," he announced from the steps of the Manitoba House of Assembly on June 24th, the day the new minority government of Rodmond Roblin was sworn in after eighteen straight years of majority rule under "Ramrod Roddy," a corrupt social conservative who had done more than anything else to sink women's suffrage in Manitoba. Continuing his stemwinder of a speech, Crerar further extrapolated, "As the balance of power in this province, we will be reasonable, we will be pragmatic, and we will act on behalf of those who entrusted us with this matter of great import - but we will never forget what this place is, and what we now are, and we will pursue our agenda accordingly." It was a remarkable moment, the hour that the UF had truly arrived in the halls of power, its first major breakthrough anywhere in Canada.

The Roblin government, on twenty-one seats, was supported by Tobias Norris' Liberals, with thirteen, despite Crerar's overtures to Norris to form a grand coalition. Despite Norris having quite a number of progressive views, he suspected - probably not incorrectly - that he would be subsumed quickly by the UFM-Labour coalition, and he preferred instead to "hold the sword of Damocles" over Roblin, whom he predicted would not be able to long survive a coalition government after nearly two decades atop Manitoba alone. Crerar in later years wrote that he suspected that Norris' game was, in the end, to either force Roblin's resignation and replacement with a more moderate Tory, or to simply force fresh elections and give himself time to reorient the Liberals towards a new era of agrarian radicalism and socialist agitation that he did not entirely understand; whatever his reasons, Norris was able to extract a number of concessions from Roblin including social insurance such as workmen's compensation and a widows' pension as well as substantial public works projects, though women's suffrage would have to wait for yet another day.

Manitoba was thus not the great triumph but rather the first shot in the sprint to power for the United Farmers, who had in six short years gone from being beaten with clubs by police on horseback in Ottawa at the Farmers March to the official opposition in Winnipeg, with Crerar now a household name in much of the Prairies and certainly to the organizers of the UFO. The success out west was enough to persuade the activists at a raucous convention of the UFO in St. Catharines in October 1918 - Drury was anointed party leader ahead of expected elections the following year, and the zeal of the possible hung in the air…” [2]

- The People's Prime Minister: Thomas Crerar's Remarkable Canadian Life

[1] No Reason for it to be renamed Kitchener here, after all!
[2] This is the big change from OTL - the UF typically ran without a formal leader, and Drury did not become leader until after winning the 1919 elections and Morrison declined. Here, the UFO has way more time to organize ahead of the polls, and with Crerar more of a national figure and him clearly supporting Drury, the UFO is better positioned to not be a flash in the pan

(Had to retcon a little as I remembered after writing that Crerar was already a federal MP)
 
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The Central European War
"...general trend in historiography of the time to recount the late 1910s as an almost economic golden age that, along with the general peace across the continent, came to a crashing halt with the onset of the war. This is in some ways a recollection of the time through very rose-tinted glasses that is nostalgic for a time without the horrors of the conflict, but also a very narrow view that considers only the experiences of Germany and France and, to a lesser extent, Italy. It is true that few if any countries in Europe were seeing any kind of economic stagnation or decline by 1918, but the first half of the decade had seen a genuine economic shock that many economies by the conclusion of the decade were still recovering from. The secular economic depression of 1910-11 had been exacerbated severely by the imposition of the Imperial Preference system installed by the Haldane government, an echo that reverberated across Europe in ways that few anticipated. [1]

At the root of the issue was that a number of European economies had, due to the liberal macroeconomic regime of the late 19th century, still not reconciled themselves to a nascent trend of protectionism in places like Germany, Russia, or France, or at the very least were not expecting Britain to withdraw behind a tariff system meant to benefit herself and her colonies. Imperial Preference, combined with major readjustments forced by the Great American War, had been a huge boon to Australia, South Africa and Canada; it had devastated trade-dependent markets such as Denmark, Belgium and Norway, and placed even some strain on Spain, the Netherlands, Italy, and Turkey, all countries with healthy and developed trade networks with Britain.

The end of the age of free trade with Imperial Preference's introduction coincided, perhaps not by accident, with the diplomatic withdrawal of Britain from Europe. At the time it was generally considered to be of a diplomatic manner - conflicts in Ireland in 1914 and India the year after were consuming a great amount of London's attention - but there was a financial dimension, as well. British banking's share of European investments had declined significantly since the early 1870s as Latin American and Asian markets had opened to British finance, and British banks were critical in the financing of the Great American War, as well. Imperial Preference also deepened the ties between the City's banks and the dominions; the boomtimes in Canada and Australia were very much underwritten by millions in British gold.

This left small, free-trading countries like Denmark exposed to their primary market evaporating for agricultural goods and a major source of financing eroding. Without Britain, countries like Denmark had two options - the Bourse of Paris, or Frankfurt and Hamburg's smaller banks in Germany. On paper, there was a great deal that made sense about an economy more integrated with that of Germany, from cultural similarities (Lutheranism in particular) to proximity. On the other hand, Copenhagen's merchants had considered Hamburg and other Hanseatic cities competitors since the Middle Ages.

Beyond that, Germany had no coordinated national strategy on coordinating finance as a tool of geopolitics. In this sense, it was somewhat like Britain, which viewed such interventionism as a bit gauche and simply relied on the City to "pursue her interests," though for Germany it was also that no concentrated banking system existed. The Reich's polycentric structure, and that Frankfurt would not develop into Europe's banking hub for decades to come, meant that even had Berlin wanted to use German banking as a tool of the Foreign Office, they would have struggled to do so effectively.

That left, essentially, France, and there Denmark was once again supine to the needs of the Iron Triangle they had agreed to join forty years prior. France had no qualms about regarding the Bourse, the Banque de France, or any of her major private financial institutions as arms of the state and sovereign loans as a tool of geostrategy. Denmark needed a lifeline in the wake of Imperial Preference, and a lifeline she received. As the economic depression of the mid-1910s ended in Denmark, the country's growth was thus more and more dependent on French investment and, in tandem with that, French profits in the Far East and hegemony in North Africa. In an eerie, dark parallel of France's increasing willingness to attach itself to Austria to recoup its military and financial interests, Denmark was unable to extricate itself from a situation which, in hindsight, made little sense for it to continue to pursue thanks to its yearslong dependence on French funding and trade..." [2]

- The Central European War

[1] This update is inspired a bit by my reading of "8mm to the Left" by @KaiserKatze in that I realized I hadn't really given enough thought to how Imperial Pref might effect Europe more broadly. And if you haven't read "8mm" yet please go do so - it's one of the most exciting new projects on this site since the launch of "Geronimo" three years ago
[2] Important to re-note the financial dependency of Belgium on France, too, which I touched on briefly in the last Belgium update. Paris sits at the center of a very important financial network in continental Europe...
 
Ah good to see Morrison being declawed before his farmer-supremacist nonsense destroyed the UFO movement. I take it there will be no early fall of government due to refurbished coal scuttle, so they will get proportional representation. I hope that you ensure that the UFO government gets as in OTL, the most aptly named Speaker of the House: Nelson Parliament.
Drury will still be hard-pressed to make STV or proportional representation work with some of his political headwinds but with Crerar a national figure supporting him the kind of shithousing Morrison subjected him too doesn’t work.

This is really all buildup for a TL exploring the Progressives enjoying actual staying power
 
Drury will still be hard-pressed to make STV or proportional representation work with some of his political headwinds but with Crerar a national figure supporting him the kind of shithousing Morrison subjected him too doesn’t work.

This is really all buildup for a TL exploring the Progressives enjoying actual staying power
Thanks for the clarifications and great chapter as always
 
Beyond that, Germany had no coordinated national strategy on coordinating finance as a tool of geopolitics. In this sense, it was somewhat like Britain, which viewed such interventionism as a bit gauche and simply relied on the City to "pursue her interests," though for Germany it was also that no concentrated banking system existed. The Reich's polycentric structure, and that Frankfurt would not develop into Europe's banking hub for decades to come, meant that even had Berlin wanted to use German banking as a tool of the Foreign Office, they would have struggled to do so effectively.
I'm not sure Germany would have been that powerless. Granted, it was never to be on par with the financial power wielded by Paris or London, but on an industrial and trading basis, it had become a behemoth by the late 19th century, as I understand from Ali Laidi's World History of Economic Warfare (in French though). From the chapter 20 (pp 460-482) of this book on the "Economic competition at the eve of First World War", there was an invasion of European markets by "made in Germany" products: the author even writes "Germany is stronger because Germany prepares the conquest of markets like one prepares a military invasion" and describes a system where a system of solidarities and cooperation between private and public actors, financing, advertising/influence campaigns and economic intelligence/espionnage in a more efficient and extensive way than anything that could happen in France or England; the author does not explicit any institutional system and policies, so I surmise these were largely adhoc and officious, but citing Maurice Schwob, he writes that the German economy's "great strength resides in the capability of its actors to play collectively".

Now, ITTL even though the situation has been better for France, I suspect the balance of trade would be gradually going in Germany's favor as it did IOTL. IOTL, the French had been quite nervous, paranoid about the level of penetration of the French economy by German owned businessess; to bypass protectionnist measures, often they - the Germans - would simply buy local factories to make and sell their goods on the French market. In the even more protectionnist context of the TL, I expect the German businesses to pursue this even more actively.
Besides the diplomatic battles waged, I'd assume the trade wars between Paris and Berlin across central Europe could also play a not small role in the CEW's outbreak. Say, French industrials are more than displeased to see German businesses winning market shares they think were theirs for instance.
 
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[1] This update is inspired a bit by my reading of "8mm to the Left" by @KaiserKatze in that I realized I hadn't really given enough thought to how Imperial Pref might effect Europe more broadly. And if you haven't read "8mm" yet please go do so - it's one of the most exciting new projects on this site since the launch of "Geronimo" three years ago
Thanks for the shoutout, and I hope that I can fulfill your expectations moving forward!
 
What are the First and Second ones?
"The 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Confederate Constitution passed the convention after considerable debate but with healthy margins, and attempts to introduce other amendments were sidelined. The 1st Amendment repealed the provision disallowing nonmilitary internal improvements receive subsidy from the "national legislature," and the 2nd Amendment repealed the provision forbidding protective tariffs, allowing those to be levied along with the extant general tariff at the time set at 15%."

These were during the Longstreet years of the early 1880s.
 
I'm not sure Germany would have been that powerless. Granted, it was never to be on par with the financial power wielded by Paris or London, but on an industrial and trading basis, it had become a behemoth by the late 19th century, as I understand from Ali Laidi's World History of Economic Warfare (in French though). From the chapter 20 (pp 460-482) of this book on the "Economic competition at the eve of First World War", there was an invasion of European markets by "made in Germany" products: the author even writes "Germany is stronger because Germany prepares the conquest of markets like one prepares a military invasion" and describes a system where a system of solidarities and cooperation between private and public actors, financing, advertising/influence campaigns and economic intelligence/espionnage in a more efficient and extensive way than anything that could happen in France or England; the author does not explicit any institutional system and policies, so I surmise these were largely adhoc and officious, but citing Maurice Schwob, he writes that the German economy's "great strength resides in the capability of its actors to play collectively".

Now, ITTL even though the situation has been better for France, I suspect the balance of trade would be gradually going in Germany's favor as it did IOTL. IOTL, the French had been quite nervous, paranoid about the level of penetration of the French economy by German owned businessess; to bypass protectionnist measures, often they - the Germans - would simply buy local factories to make and sell their goods on the French market. In the even more protectionnist context of the TL, I expect the German businesses to pursue this even more actively.
Besides the diplomatic battles waged, I'd assume the trade wars between Paris and Berlin across central Europe could also play a not small role in the CEW's outbreak. Say, French industrials are more than displeased to see German businesses winning market shares they think were theirs for instance.
I want to note I don’t disagree with any of this, mind you - Germany’s economy by the mid-1910s was becoming extremely formidable. Honestly the leniency with which Britain has treated them ITTL is probably the most unrealistic thing about it, though much of that stems from a considerably more belligerent/ambitious France.

More what I’m getting at is that German banking lacked the kind of centralization of the UK, not that it’s industry was not rapidly dominating Europe, and that as “The Sleepwalkers” outlines France viewed the banks of the Bourse as an extension of the Quai d’Orsay.
Thanks for the shoutout, and I hope that I can fulfill your expectations moving forward!
I’m not all the way caught up but I’m seriously impressed so far, especially for a debut work. Keep it up!
Oh, Denmark; what have you gotten yourself into?
*cackles in Swedish, which unlike Danish is actually intelligible* 😉🙃🇸🇪
What are the First and Second ones?
"The 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Confederate Constitution passed the convention after considerable debate but with healthy margins, and attempts to introduce other amendments were sidelined. The 1st Amendment repealed the provision disallowing nonmilitary internal improvements receive subsidy from the "national legislature," and the 2nd Amendment repealed the provision forbidding protective tariffs, allowing those to be levied along with the extant general tariff at the time set at 15%."

These were during the Longstreet years of the early 1880s.
^^^
 

kham_coc

Banned
I want to note I don’t disagree with any of this, mind you - Germany’s economy by the mid-1910s was becoming extremely formidable. Honestly the leniency with which Britain has treated them ITTL is probably the most unrealistic thing about it, though much of that stems from a considerably more belligerent/ambitious France.
You never mentioned it, but you could make a good argument that Imperial preference is one of the things done in response to German exports.

*cackles in Swedish, which unlike Danish is actually intelligible* 😉🙃🇸🇪
Well ITTL, we Swedes might have a chance of teaching them how to speak Swedish:)
 
You never mentioned it, but you could make a good argument that Imperial preference is one of the things done in response to German exports.
This is a great subtextual point. I’d say that’s broadly correct, though it’s probably a response to Germany, France and the USA collectively rather than just the one

Well ITTL, we Swedes might have a chance of teaching them how to speak Swedish:)
Fortsätt jag är snart där…
 
Ironically, for all my banter, Denmark is actually probably the Scandinavian country that is going to come out best in the long run TTL purely by not gifting Norway more favorable sea boundaries around Ekofisk
 

Indiana Beach Crow

Monthly Donor
Ironically, for all my banter, Denmark is actually probably the Scandinavian country that is going to come out best in the long run TTL purely by not gifting Norway more favorable sea boundaries around Ekofisk.
petrol-station.gif
 
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