England Expects that Every Man....

Looking into it a bit more, it appears that Evan-Thomas was 5th Battle Squadron, which would still drop Moore under Beatty (at least in OTL Jutland the 5BS was attached to the BCF).

EDIT: Looks like there were several replies talking about 5BS while I was reading up on it all. Sorry for any redundancy.
A lack of accuracy on my part, sorry.

We're in January 1915, the day after Dogger Bank or so. Evan-Thomas has just been asked by Jellicoe to leave his role with 1st Battle Squadron - OTL as 2IC.

OTL Evan-Thomas didn't take command of 5th Battle Squadron until October 1915. So here Moore would have months to do something before that posting - but 1BS would let him see, for instance, the difference between the standing orders of the Grand Fleet and the BCF even if Beatty does not brief Moore ITTL as he did not Evan-Thomas OTL.
 
This was meant to be a small filler piece, with a few tiny nuggets of information. I am pleased to see that it has generated discussion. I like a lot of the posts, and the points they raise.

Of course we have not seen the last of these matters. I don't really know what is going to happen, we will have to watch and find out as the characters live through it.
 
Ideally (for the Admiralty) it won't come to that, but I think Moore is probably in a stronger position than Beatty. Maybe easier to shunt Beatty off to a grand sounding command (C-in-C Mediterranean and Indian Ocean?) than move Moore? Beatty would hate it, but if it's that or a complete non job on shore (and with the threat of the flag officer debacle hanging over him) he might take it.
Oddly there was no Commander in Chief Mediterranean between 1915-1917 so there's a nice void for someone to be promoted upwards into obscurity.
 
It would be interesting to see how Beatty's rich American wife would react to any possible moves to put him out to pasture. I know she cheated on him regularly but from what I understand she was quite active in exploiting her connections to advance his career. Just pointing it out because she is another potential variable in this equation.
 
When he was a junior officer, Mrs. Beatty used to say that he could leave the navy and she would buy him a cruiser....

They both had social connections, for all the usual reasons.
They were both philanderers and from what I have read both knew about the other. But it was part of their balance.
 
Or the 5th as a kind of reward/acknowledgement of good service?

Will we get a peek into the JSF’s damage and recovery?

1. I have (am?) just made a few small edits to language and phrasing. This section was written and posted in haste so there is tidying to do. Sentence added at end of Jellicoes comment on gunnery training.
2. Overall I wanted to leave out a bunch of stuff, and let them really be trying to restrain themselves. We see what Beatty says but not what is tumbling through his mind.
3. Next section mostly written, but will be delayed until the end of the week. I am again on my previously mentioned mission of aid and comfort, and my text is not availble to me.
4. There won't be anything about the HSF except maybe (some of?) what the British learn. This story is about command and the exercise thereof in an RN coming off its Victorian heyday of absolute supremacy.
/VP
 
England Expects Ch 4 - 3
CHAPTER 4 Part 3 – England Expects that Every Man....

THREE

Admiral Jellicoe looked out at the room. Amazingly enough, every Admiral in the Grand Fleet was in attendance, along with virtually all of the senior Captains. “Gentlemen! It is rare that we can all gather like this, but following the recent action we have a breather for maintenance, to conduct some training, and generally consider what we have learned. Right now, the enemy battle cruiser force, their heavy scouting arm, is unavailable for operations. So the High Seas Fleet is unlikely to sortie, and is busy digesting the lessons which they learned.

“While we have also suffered some damage, Admiral Beatty, now Acting Vice Admiral Beatty, is reforming the BCF – as the Battle Cruiser Fleet – with the undamaged vessels, and they will be here at Scapa for gunnery training before leaving for Rosyth. Indomitable is here now, HMAS Australia has reached the UK and will reach Scapa shortly along with Queen Mary, rushed through her refit to take his flag. Invincible is undergoing more complete repairs to miscellaneous damage from the Falklands battle, and will join in a few days, while Inflexible will remain in the Med after relieving Indefatigable, which will refit and then join Admiral Beatty. So in a few more weeks he will have five ships in the BCF.

“The purpose of this meeting is for Rear Admiral Evan Thomas to introduce his plan for fleet communication and signaling, and explain the parts we will all take in its implementation. I will tell you at the outset that Admiral Fisher and I have seen his plan and support getting it under way forthwith. That will be clear from supporting measures which you will see have been put into motion. I hand you over to Admiral Evan Thomas.”

“Gentlemen. I will try to make this brief and to the point. That will leave some time for questions and allow us us to pull this meeting to a prompt close.

“First, as you are probably aware, as IGSC I have been assigned to look at how signaling has worked for us in the myriad actions so far in the war, and set a program for improvement moving forward rapidly. With that in mind, we have not been studying the specific instances, but rather identifying the critical pathway forward to make the overall system more effective in our use of signals.

“To that end, we have a series of related steps which will develop the capacity of the fleet to apply lessons which we will develop from analysis of events. Sir? A question?”

“Rear Admiral Evan Thomas. Do you meant to say that you want to prepare to respond to lessons which you believe you will find when you look at the details of operations? Given how we drill the battle squadrons, that seems a bit, well...presumptuous.”

“Thank you Vice Admiral. Yes, I can see that it might look that way, but we already have a few specific instances where poor signaling caused problems, and can see where there are other matters of concern. These cover several previous operations against the enemy. The situation is that we can study those in detail in a shorter period of time, much shorter, than it will take for the basic steps to respond to them. Therefore we will put the wide-ranging plan into place, giving it the quickest start that we can, to get trained personnel in place. Even with that, we do not believe the Fleet will be caught up to the new standard of fully trained personnel by the time we go through the experience gained. With better trained personnel at all levels, we will be much better placed to exercise command.

“As for current training of the Fleet, that is important, but as you have read in Vice Admiral Beatty's and Rear Admiral Moore's reports, we are seeing that in action with the enemy we need to do better in some ways. While current signals training is good, it barely begins to cover the number of communications personnel necessary. We are also seeing that there are different considerations with large fleets at long ranges and high speeds - so there will be new matters to train for. Sir, I trust that covers your query adequately, and more will be clear as we move on.

“The core effort will be to have a completely manned signals department in every ship, squadron, and fleet. Here are the steps, starting at the base level and working our way up:

1. Train all signalmen. Yes, most are today, but we need to be sure they are trained and capable.

2. Train the Communications Officer of each ship. There are new responsibilities and requirements.

3. Train all Flag Lieutenants. More on this later.

4. Have upgrade and refresher courses available for all of the above, here at Scapa and as soon as we can at Rosyth.

“We have a lot of trained personnel already, but these numbers will mean expanding the Signal School to get these through with the minimum deleterious effect upon Fleet efficiency. And so we are going to open a branch of it right here in Scapa. An old armoured cruiser has been fitted out at Vernon to be the base of this new school. The ship is carrying instructors and equipment and will sail for here today. Additional facilities will be found here as best we can.

“So for all of you, this means you have to survey your ships' companies for trained personnel, and those in need of training, both enlisted and officers, and forward the lists to my office. You should include their current training, and their current role in your crews and staffs, along with recommendation for who to send first, and who is due for an upgrade. Upgrades will often be a different course, quite possibly at Vernon rather than trying to build all course capability into the new station here. Our focus here will be basic signals for enlisted and officers, and on officers' upgrades. In general, if the numbers turn out to be too large, we will have priority courses run at Vernon and we will dispatch groups there for that.

“To let the School get established and do its job, we will coordinate which men of the Fleet to take into each batch, and for which course. This will be done to balance the personnel drawn from each ship and squadron. While they will be here at Scapa and usually ready to go to sea with their ships if required, it will be better if such absences can be limited so that courses can be completed. Yes, this is a bit outside the IGSC role, but it seems to fit in administratively for the moment, and will help out the Fleet Staff.

“For the Communications Officer of each ship, some already have a qualified man. In this case they can wait until the new course for Communications Officers is ready and take that with some of their peers. Otherwise there will be regular signals courses organized for officers – that means they will go at a faster pace, for those bright young men.” There was some general chuckling at this. “In addition, for those who have previously taken the Short Course, we may allow them some exemptions in the Officers course.

“Now I note that this will be a change in that the position will be formally established in the ship, rather than just assigning some officer general responsibility for signals. This is being coordinated with the Second Lord's office. And even if you don't get extra bodies, this will be a specific and enhanced responsibility.

“Finally, Flag Lieutenants will have to be trained signal officers. After all that is their actual job – not just organizing your schedule and lending you his umbrella when you forget yours – or he forgets to bring two.” This last brought general laughter as most recalled the recent case of a young Flag Lieutenant who arrived at a flag officers' meeting in a driving rain looking more like a harbour seal than an officer...although why he had gone out on a grey day in Scapa without even his rain coat was a mystery to all. “They need to be able to ensure that your signals traffic is done well, both outward to your command and your commander, and inward from them. This is critical in the modern high-speed naval battlefield.”

There was some restlessness at this and a couple of Vice Admirals made as if to speak. Jellicoe stood and moved to the small podium. “I'll address this before it starts. I can tell you quite clearly that this will take place. Admiral Fisher and I have discussed it with Vice Admiral Hamilton and it will be done. The Second Lord's office is fully on board with this change. The Flag Lieutenant who is not a qualified signals officer is going to be a liability, if he is not already. If your orders are not clear in themselves, or are not sent out in a manner that can be received and acted upon quickly, then they do no good at all. We will do this across the RN as soon as practicable.

“The one bit of flexibility might be for a separate Signals and Communications Officer in addition to your flag Lieutenant, a more senior officer with responsibility for this critical function. This will work where there is a larger staff, but an additional officer might not be justified in all cases.”

Jellicoe continued in a firm tone. “Now I suggest we limit discussion on this point and stick with the new signals and communication program.”

Evan Thomas stepped back to the podium. “Gentlemen, the main points of the program have been laid out as best we know them today. We continue to develop and refine as we go along. Details and of course scheduling are being worked out, but Admiral Jellicoe wanted you to know the general program as soon as possible so you could begin making plans in your squadrons and ships.

“Now, to focus the discussion, I will call for questions around each topic in its turn. Let's begin with the Signal School branch we are going to have here.”
 
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Superb stuff and it seems that the butterfly wings are gonna start flapping. Clever use of Jellico name dropping Fisher too. He (Fisher) still had many enemies within the fleet following his huge and very public spat with Lord Beresford, so in essence Jellico was saying 'fight me on this and you fight him. How did that work for Beresford?' Whilst we don't know the damage done to the 1st Scouting Group, the action indicates that there was at least two turret fires, so we can assume one OTL on the Seydlitz and one on another ship. This will require repairs and give the UK the time it needs to start this program, but its going to have to be running officers through it and there's only so many trained personnel that can act as teachers.
 
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I was pleased to see the decision to prioritise the Flag Lieutenant role being competent at signalling. It is important in itself and will definitely help in future engagements, but the fact Fisher, Jellicoe and the Admiralty are going to push it through despite the opposition (it was always a prime role to give to a senior officers favoured junior) shows this is being taken very seriously at the highest levels.

I think the detail that Rear Admiral Moore's report has been circulated around and there have been no negative consequences for Moore is important. I recall a paper from KCL which outlined how, after Jutland, Jellicoe and the Admiralty belatedly realised they had got too rigid and had to inject the old style dynamism and initiative back into their officers. It appears Jellicoe has had this realisation a bit earlier and hopefully Moore's example will show the rest of the fleet that showing a bit of enterprise and initiative won't end your career and will get you honour and praise.
 
I was pleased to see the decision to prioritise the Flag Lieutenant role being competent at signalling. It is important in itself and will definitely help in future engagements, but the fact Fisher, Jellicoe and the Admiralty are going to push it through despite the opposition (it was always a prime role to give to a senior officers favoured junior) shows this is being taken very seriously at the highest levels.

I think the detail that Rear Admiral Moore's report has been circulated around and there have been no negative consequences for Moore is important. I recall a paper from KCL which outlined how, after Jutland, Jellicoe and the Admiralty belatedly realised they had got too rigid and had to inject the old style dynamism and initiative back into their officers. It appears Jellicoe has had this realisation a bit earlier and hopefully Moore's example will show the rest of the fleet that showing a bit of enterprise and initiative won't end your career and will get you honour and praise.

The bitching over their Flag Lieutenants will continue, but not openly. The smart ones will realise that having a competant signal qualified Flag Lieutenant is an asset. As for Moore, however, the traditionalists and conservatives among the admirals and within the Admiralty will almost certainly have begun their campaign against him for breaking protocol and embarassing his superior. All in an obvious attempt to save his own arse.
 
Jellicoe and the Admiralty belatedly realised they had got too rigid and had to inject the old style dynamism and initiative back into their officers. It appears Jellicoe has had this realisation a bit earlier and hopefully

I think this was partially realised when elements of the Grand fleet ran across the 1st Scouting group in heavy weather and fog but well within gunnery range and apparently unspotted as the Germans didn't shoot. The Admiral leading the Battle group didn't give any order to fire as he didn't see them (and was partially deaf to boot!) and so the RN ships just let the Germans sail away. It was this which helped get Vice Admiral Arbuthnott killed, he was commanding the 2nd part of the Division refused to act without signals from the flag. And following this, Arbuthnot swore that if he had an enemy under his guns he'd shoot. and this lead him to charging a crippled light cruiser with his armoured cruiser squadron which then got pasted by German battlecruisers with his flag, the Defence blowing up
 
Admirals can still pick and choose Flag Lieutenants, they just have to make sure that they are run through the communications course at the appropriate level. For someone actually mentoring a skilled junior, no problem. OTOH officers who might be selected for those positions based on nepotism or some political reason (a second son of Lord so and so) who are not so sharp would probably fail this course. I can see subtle or not so subtle pressures to pass these folks, which will need to be stepped on heavily.
 

Deleted member 94680

...every Admiral in the Grand Fleet was in attendance

“The purpose of this meeting is for Rear Admiral Evan Thomas to introduce his plan for fleet communication ...Admiral Fisher and I have seen his plan and support getting it under way forthwith.”

“...but we already have a few specific instances where poor signalling caused problems, and can see where there are other matters of concern. These cover several previous operations against the enemy. ...we do not believe the Fleet will be fully up to the new standard of fully trained personnel by the time we go through the experience gained. With better trained personnel at all levels, we will be much better placed to exercise command.”

“As for current training of the Fleet, that is important, but as you have read in Vice Admiral Beatty's and Rear Admiral Moore's reports, we are seeing that in action with the enemy we need to do better in some ways.”

“Now I note that this will be a change in that the position will be formally established in the ship, rather than just assigning some officer general responsibility for signals.”

“Finally, Flag Lieutenants will have to be trained signal officers. After all that is their actual job – not just organizing your schedule and lending you his umbrella when you forget yours – or he forgets to bring two.” ...“They need to be able to ensure that your signals traffic is done well, both outward to your command and your commander, and inward from them. This is critical in the modern high-speed naval battlefield.”

Jellicoe stood and moved to the small podium. “I'll address this before it starts. I can tell you quite clearly that this will take place. Fisher and I have discussed it with Vice Admiral Hamilton and it will be done. ...The Flag Lieutenant who is not a qualified signals officer is going to be a liability, if he is not already. If your orders are not clear in themselves, or are not sent out in a manner that can be received and acted upon quickly, then they do no good at all.”

Would love to see Beatty’s face when word of these bits get back to him...
 
Would love to see Beatty’s face when word of these bits get back to him...

Something tells me he'd be shooting hellfire and damnation from his lips and it could well kill any chance of the two working together in anything but the most formal of ways. But as was pointed out earlier, Moore is Beatty's direct subordinate and if something was to happen to him, his successor. And as was pointed out earlier, he can't be sacked or shuffled off to a lesser position, because Moore's probably the one getting the victor's laurels for Dogger Bank, assuming Fisher's having the words with all the right people.
 
I can see subtle or not so subtle pressures to pass these folks, which will need to be stepped on heavily.
While Fisher regularly played favourites (boasted about it in fact) and did not put much faith in the standard assessments for command positions, it was always about ability not connections - the people became Fisher's favourite because he thought they had talent, not because of any pre-existing connection. So on that basis I can't see him tolerating people who aren't competent being allowed into the system.

So I think the course should be fairly honest, the Signalling School will want to do a good job and will have backing from the top to do so. The Admiralty has never been afraid to run courses with high failure rates if they think it is important, so this might be one of those courses.
 
First, Teach the Teachers. get a core of personnel from each Division of ships to be trained up and they can disseminate the new methodology.

Yes, setting up the additional school to really do its job is not easy. That's why they have a unit coming from Vernon on the cruiser. The capacity of the new school will also be limited by the facilities they have (don't have) at Scapa. So they can't expect it to launch into full production immediately - thus the need to pick and choose who goes first.

The bitching over their Flag Lieutenants will continue, but not openly. The smart ones will realise that having a competant signal qualified Flag Lieutenant is an asset. As for Moore, however, the traditionalists and conservatives among the admirals and within the Admiralty will almost certainly have begun their campaign against him for breaking protocol and embarassing his superior. All in an obvious attempt to save his own arse.

Yes to both of these - signals competency is a need, and will be more so after E-T and his team (bolstered by real experts form Vernon who will be arriving shortly) report on signals errors in previous operations. Beatty is not happy, as we saw in the last section, and is seeking Moore's relief.

Would love to see Beatty’s face when word of these bits get back to him...

I may reword the text to make it more clear, but Beatty was at the meeting. (BCF was part of the GF.) His only fully operational ship (Indomitable) plus QM and Australia reporting, are at Scapa for a few days, at least, before returning to Rosyth. With the threat of a raid diminished for the time being, they can stay in the north for training, even if Beatty would prefer to be at Rosyth with its amenities.

While Fisher regularly played favourites (boasted about it in fact) and did not put much faith in the standard assessments for command positions, it was always about ability not connections - the people became Fisher's favourite because he thought they had talent, not because of any pre-existing connection. So on that basis I can't see him tolerating people who aren't competent being allowed into the system.

So I think the course should be fairly honest, the Signalling School will want to do a good job and will have backing from the top to do so. The Admiralty has never been afraid to run courses with high failure rates if they think it is important, so this might be one of those courses.

BTW Jellicoe was one of Fisher's people, and had been part of the "fish pond."
The Signal School will be running the training, and it will be as honest as it would be in the south - maybe more so since even if there is pressure to pass some, they will also be under close examination of the Fleet and all its senior officers. They cannot be seen to pass an incompetent flag lieutenant who will be noticed by the other admirals in an instant.
 
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Deleted member 94680

I may reword the text to make it more clear, but Beatty was at the meeting. (BCF was part of the GF.) His only fully operational ship (Indomitable) plus QM and Australia reporting, are at Scapa for a few days, at least, before returning to Rosyth. With the threat of a raid diminished for the time being, they can stay in the north for training, even if Beatty would prefer to be at Rosyth with its amenities.

Ah, my bad. I thought when you wrote all the Admirals were in the meeting, he must be there. But when there was no response (or mention of his reaction) at all the barbs in his direction, I assumed he must be away with the ships of the BCF.

Cracking update though, this is a good TL.
 
Ah, my bad. I thought when you wrote all the Admirals were in the meeting, he must be there. But when there was no response (or mention of his reaction) at all the barbs in his direction, I assumed he must be away with the ships of the BCF.

Cracking update though, this is a good TL.

Thank you.

Everything said was generic, and no direct reference to the BCF, Beatty or Moore (except for their reports), or Dogger. This was all based on cumulative knowledge. So he might well feel it to be personal, but this is for everyone, and will spread RN-wide as it proves (at least partially?) successful.
 
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