XXth C: Discussion Thread

[Glen]

These are fine.

Sorry, but Jefferson isn't likely to be that closely identified with Populism. I think the monument would go through.

Think we could rework the bit so Populists trying to spin the presentation of the Jefferson Memorial stall it or otherwise change it?

 

[reformer]

That might work. The thing is, the Jefferson memorial was kinda a pet project of FDR OTL, and it has a very new deal feel to it. If the Populists try to give it a Populist spin, the entire project may begin to fall apart.

Eventually this is going to lead to a very different type of monument in Washington.

 

[Glen]

Okay, folks. reformer wants us to get what we have up to now of the XXth Century on the timelines and scenarios section.

We've discussed it a bit, and it would be good to have sort of a 'round up' of things we feel need to be added/finished in the timeline before that.

Preferably tying up loose ends already existent in the timeline, and advancing at least in rough sketch the timelines of major nations to the 1990s.

 

[reformer]

Ok. . . Glen. . . just us now I guess. What will your focus be at ths point, and what should we plan on accomplishing before submission?

I'm not going to give all the details yet, but there are many holes in the US at the moment. Too many. Especially with the parties.

 

[Glen]

Ok. . . Glen. . . just us now I guess. What will your focus be at ths point, and what should we plan on accomplishing before submission?

I'm not going to give all the details yet, but there are many holes in the US at the moment. Too many. Especially with the parties.

Lets move the discussion part to the discussion thread.

 

[Glen]

Below is a list of OTL countries/territories from wikipedia. I'd like to go through the list alphabetically and get a feel for what we think has happened and/or should happen to those regions in the XXth Century timeline.

A
Abkhazia – Republic of Abkhazia[4]
Afghanistan – Islamic Republic of Afghanistan
Akrotiri and Dhekelia – Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (UK overseas territory)
Åland – Åland Islands (Autonomous province of Finland)
Albania – Republic of Albania
Algeria – People's Democratic Republic of Algeria
American Samoa – Territory of American Samoa (US territory)
Andorra – Principality of Andorra
Angola – Republic of Angola
Anguilla (UK overseas territory)
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina – Argentine Republic[10]
Armenia – Republic of Armenia
Aruba (Self-governing country in the Kingdom of the Netherlands)
Ascension Island (Dependency of the UK overseas territory of Saint Helena)
Australia – Commonwealth of Australia
Austria – Republic of Austria
Azerbaijan – Republic of Azerbaijan[11]

B
Bahamas, The – Commonwealth of The Bahamas
Bahrain – Kingdom of Bahrain
Bangladesh – People's Republic of Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus – Republic of Belarus
Belgium – Kingdom of Belgium
Belize
Benin – Republic of Benin
Bermuda (UK overseas territory)
Bhutan – Kingdom of Bhutan
Bolivia – Republic of Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina[12]
Botswana – Republic of Botswana
Brazil – Federative Republic of Brazil
Brunei – Negara Brunei Darussalam
Bulgaria – Republic of Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
See Myanmar for Burma[1]
Burundi – Republic of Burundi

C
Cambodia – Kingdom of Cambodia
Cameroon – Republic of Cameroon
Canada[13]
Cape Verde – Republic of Cape Verde
Cayman Islands (UK overseas territory)
Central African Republic[14]
Chad – Republic of Chad
Chile – Republic of Chile
China, People's Republic of – People's Republic of China[15]
China, Republic of – Republic of China [16]
Christmas Island – Territory of Christmas Island (Australian overseas territory)
Cocos (Keeling) Islands – Territory of Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australian overseas territory)
Colombia – Republic of Colombia
Comoros – Union of the Comoros
Congo, Democratic Republic of – Democratic Republic of the Congo[17]
Congo, Republic of – Republic of the Congo[18]
Cook Islands (Associated state of New Zealand)
Costa Rica – Republic of Costa Rica
Côte d'Ivoire – Republic of Côte d'Ivoire[1]
Croatia – Republic of Croatia
Cuba – Republic of Cuba
Cyprus – Republic of Cyprus[19]
Czech Republic[20]

D
Denmark – Kingdom of Denmark
See Akrotiri and Dhekelia for Dhekelia
Djibouti – Republic of Djibouti
Dominica – Commonwealth of Dominica
Dominican Republic

E
See Timor-Leste for East Timor[1]
Ecuador – Republic of Ecuador
Egypt – Arab Republic of Egypt
El Salvador – Republic of El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea – Republic of Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea – State of Eritrea
Estonia – Republic of Estonia
Ethiopia – Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia

F
Falkland Islands (UK overseas territory)[21]
Faroe Islands (Self-governing country in the Kingdom of Denmark)
Fiji – Republic of the Fiji Islands
Finland – Republic of Finland
France – French Republic
French Polynesia (French overseas community)

G
Gabon – Gabonese Republic
Gambia, The – Republic of The Gambia
Georgia[22]
Germany – Federal Republic of Germany
Ghana – Republic of Ghana
Gibraltar (UK overseas territory)
Greece – Hellenic Republic
Greenland (Self-governing country in the Kingdom of Denmark)
Grenada
Guam – Territory of Guam (US organized territory)
Guatemala – Republic of Guatemala
Guernsey – Bailiwick of Guernsey (British Crown dependency)[23]
Guinea – Republic of Guinea
Guinea-Bissau – Republic of Guinea-Bissau
Guyana – Co-operative Republic of Guyana

H
Haiti – Republic of Haiti
Honduras – Republic of Honduras
Hong Kong – Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China (Area of special sovereignty)[24]
Hungary – Republic of Hungary

I
Iceland – Republic of Iceland
India – Republic of India
Indonesia – Republic of Indonesia
Iran – Islamic Republic of Iran
Iraq – Republic of Iraq
Ireland[25]
Isle of Man (British Crown dependency)
Israel – State of Israel
Italy – Italian Republic
See Côte d'Ivoire for Ivory Coast[1]

J
Jamaica
Japan
Jersey – Bailiwick of Jersey (British Crown dependency)
Jordan – Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan

K
Kazakhstan – Republic of Kazakhstan
Kenya – Republic of Kenya
Kiribati – Republic of Kiribati
Korea, Democratic People's Republic of – Democratic People's Republic of Korea[26]
Korea, Republic of – Republic of Korea[27]
Kosovo – Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohia (Autonomous province of Serbia under UN protectorate)[28]
Kuwait – State of Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan – Kyrgyz Republic[29]

L
Laos – Lao People's Democratic Republic
Latvia – Republic of Latvia
Lebanon – Republic of Lebanon
Lesotho – Kingdom of Lesotho
Liberia – Republic of Liberia
Libya – Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
Liechtenstein – Principality of Liechtenstein
Lithuania – Republic of Lithuania
Luxembourg – Grand Duchy of Luxembourg

M
Macao – Macao Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China (Area of special sovereignty)[1][30]
Republic of Macedonia [31]
Madagascar – Republic of Madagascar
Malawi – Republic of Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives – Republic of Maldives
Mali – Republic of Mali
Malta – Republic of Malta
Marshall Islands – Republic of the Marshall Islands
Mauritania – Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Mauritius – Republic of Mauritius
Mayotte (French overseas community)
Mexico – United Mexican States
Micronesia – Federated States of Micronesia
Moldova – Republic of Moldova[32]
Monaco – Principality of Monaco
Mongolia
Montenegro – Republic of Montenegro
Montserrat (UK overseas territory)
Morocco – Kingdom of Morocco[33]
Mozambique – Republic of Mozambique
Myanmar – Union of Myanmar (also rendered as Burma[1])

N
Nagorno-Karabakh – Nagorno-Karabakh Republic[5]
Namibia – Republic of Namibia
Nauru – Republic of Nauru
Nepal – State of Nepal
Netherlands – Kingdom of the Netherlands[34]
Netherlands Antilles (Self-governing country in the Kingdom of the Netherlands)
New Caledonia – Territory of New Caledonia and Dependencies (French community sui generis)
New Zealand
Nicaragua – Republic of Nicaragua
Niger – Republic of Niger
Nigeria – Federal Republic of Nigeria
Niue (Associated state of New Zealand)
See Korea, Democratic People's Republic of for North Korea
Norfolk Island – Territory of Norfolk Island (Australian overseas territory)
Northern Cyprus – Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus[3]
Northern Mariana Islands – Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (US commonwealth)
Norway – Kingdom of Norway

O
Oman – Sultanate of Oman

P
Pakistan – Islamic Republic of Pakistan
Palau – Republic of Palau
Palestine – Proclaimed State of Palestine[35]
Panama – Republic of Panama
Papua New Guinea – Independent State of Papua New Guinea
Paraguay – Republic of Paraguay
Peru – Republic of Peru
Philippines – Republic of the Philippines
Pitcairn Islands – Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie, and Oeno Islands (UK overseas territory)
Poland – Republic of Poland
Portugal – Portuguese Republic
Pridnestrovie – Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (also rendered as Transnistria[1])[6]
Puerto Rico – Commonwealth of Puerto Rico (US commonwealth)

Q
Qatar – State of Qatar

R
Romania
Russia – Russian Federation
Rwanda – Republic of Rwanda

S
Saint Helena (UK overseas territory)
Saint Kitts and Nevis – Federation of Saint Christopher and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (French overseas community)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa – Independent State of Samoa
San Marino – Most Serene Republic of San Marino
São Tomé and Príncipe – Democratic Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe
Saudi Arabia – Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Senegal – Republic of Senegal
Serbia – Republic of Serbia[36]
Seychelles – Republic of Seychelles
Sierra Leone – Republic of Sierra Leone
Singapore – Republic of Singapore
Slovakia – Slovak Republic
Slovenia – Republic of Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia[37]
Somaliland – Republic of Somaliland[7]
South Africa – Republic of South Africa
See Korea, Republic of for South Korea
South Ossetia – Republic of South Ossetia[8]
Spain – Kingdom of Spain
Sri Lanka – Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka
Sudan – Republic of the Sudan
Suriname – Republic of Suriname
Svalbard (Territory of Norway)[38]
Swaziland – Kingdom of Swaziland
Sweden – Kingdom of Sweden
Switzerland – Swiss Confederation
Syria – Syrian Arab Republic

T
See China, Republic of for the country that is commonly referred to as Taiwan
Tajikistan – Republic of Tajikistan
Tanzania – United Republic of Tanzania
Thailand – Kingdom of Thailand
Timor-Leste – Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste (also rendered as East Timor[1])
Togo – Togolese Republic
Tokelau (Overseas territory of New Zealand)
Tonga – Kingdom of Tonga
See Pridnestrovie for Transnistria[1]
Trinidad and Tobago – Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
Tristan da Cunha (Dependency of the UK overseas territory of Saint Helena)
Tunisia – Tunisian Republic
Turkey – Republic of Turkey
Turkmenistan
Turks and Caicos Islands (UK overseas territory)
Tuvalu

U
Uganda – Republic of Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom – United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
United States – United States of America
Uruguay – Eastern Republic of Uruguay
Uzbekistan – Republic of Uzbekistan

V
Vanuatu – Republic of Vanuatu
Vatican City – State of the Vatican City[39]
Venezuela – Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
Vietnam – Socialist Republic of Vietnam
Virgin Islands, British – British Virgin Islands (UK overseas territory)
Virgin Islands, United States – United States Virgin Islands (US organized territory)

W
Wallis and Futuna – Territory of Wallis and Futuna Islands (French overseas community)
Western Sahara – Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic[40]

Y
Yemen – Republic of Yemen

Z
Zambia – Republic of Zambia
Zimbabwe – Republic of Zimbabwe

 

[Tom Veil]

January 5, 1937 - Humphrey Bogart's commission in the Navy is reactivated.

April 1937 - Humphrey Bogart's naval vessel is sunk. He is adrift at sea, alone, for five days. He swears he will give up smoking if he lives through this. After rescue, he is as good as his word and never smokes again.

1939 - Humphrey Bogart accepts the offer of one of his Yale Law School buddies and joins the largest law firm in Portland, Oregon.

November 1944 - Humphrey Bogart wins the election for Senate in Oregon. Though a relative newcomer to Oregon, he capitalizes on this as a 'fresh face' in Oregonian politics. His victory is aided by a number of high powered contacts he has made in his law practice, by his record as an assistant DA (albeit in another state) and his status as a naval veteran. In the several decades to come in Congress, Senator Bogart is known for his smooth voice and delivery of speeches on the floor of the Senate.

December 1974 - Senior Senator from Oregon, Humphrey Bogart, is name Senate Pro Tempore.

December 1984 - Senate Pro Tempore Humphrey Bogart retires from the Senate, citing ill health.

January 25, 1986 - Retired Senator Humphrey Bogart, near death in a Portland hospital, undergoes cryosuspension in hopes of some day being revived. He is stored at a Together Forever, Inc. facility.

July 1987 -- "Dark Victory" starring Sam Sacchi, the inspiring tale of the young outsider Humphrey Bogart's first Senate election campaign, debuts to rave reviews. It later wins the award for best screenplay.

 

[Glen]

Abkazia would be part of Georgia, independent since the Koba's martyrdom.

We really should flesh out the history of Georgia a bit more in the XXth century.

 

[reformer]

July 1987 -- "Dark Victory" starring Sam Sacchi, the inspiring tale of the young outsider Humphrey Bogart's first Senate election campaign, debuts to rave reviews. It later wins the award for best screenplay.

I actually really hate to say this. . . but this guy just wouldn't have been born ATL. For that matter, neither would his parents.

 

[Glen]

I actually really hate to say this. . . but this guy just wouldn't have been born ATL. For that matter, neither would his parents.

Hmmm....Robert Sacchi certainly wouldn't, but Tom is not saying Robert, but rather, someone named Sam. I suspect he means him to be a relative not the same person. If the Bogie looks came from the paternal side of the family, it is certainly plausible that a relative might also have a passing familiarity to Senator Bogart.

 

[reformer]

We have alot more fleshing out to do, but right now I don't think there are any huge holes, so lets post our first draft.

 

[reformer]

Well we made a big push towardes giving islands independance. Have we ever really fleshed out what happens in them afterwards?

 

[Glen]

We have alot more fleshing out to do, but right now I don't think there are any huge holes, so lets post our first draft.

Well we made a big push towardes giving islands independance. Have we ever really fleshed out what happens in them afterwards?

Sorry, when I said 'flesh out', I really meant giving enough of a skeleton political history so as to have by 2000 a world map that would be reliable.

 

[Tom Veil]

Glen is correct as to my intent. My theory is that someone in OTL Robert Sacchi's XXth family is going to look pretty close to Bogart. That theory requires the "Bogie genes" to be so dominant that they existed in OTL Sacchi's parents or grandparents before 1900 (and I suppose, on the paternal side).

If you think that this is still too much of an assumption given the butterflies, feel free to shoot it down again.

 

[Tom Veil]

February 1935 -- Missouri passes a new civil service bill. Among its more progressive features are an "equal work" system that specifically allows departments, if they so choose, to hire women and Negroes in decision-making positions. It also creates the Department of Infrastructure to oversee rails, highways, waterworks, and power lines.

May 10, 1935 -- Agnes Heinlein completes her master's degree at Mellon University in Science Policy. The Secretary of the Missouri Department of Infrastructure, Stark Q. Draper, had known Ms. Heinlein since college and been thoroughly impressed with her, so he entrusts her with the highest position ever granted to a woman in Missouri government: Assistant Director for Policy.

 

[reformer]

Sorry, when I said 'flesh out', I really meant giving enough of a skeleton political history so as to have by 2000 a world map that would be reliable.

Well, at least its good to know we're gonna have a busy year.

 

[Wendell]

It will be interesting to see what nations will and will not be monarchies by the year 2000 ITTL.

 

[Glen]

February 1935 -- Missouri passes a new civil service bill. Among its more progressive features are an "equal work" system that specifically allows departments, if they so choose, to hire women and Negroes in decision-making positions. It also creates the Department of Infrastructure to oversee rails, highways, waterworks, and power lines.

May 10, 1935 -- Agnes Heinlein completes her master's degree at Mellon University in Science Policy. The Secretary of the Missouri Department of Infrastructure, Stark Q. Draper, had known Ms. Heinlein since college and been thoroughly impressed with her, so he entrusts her with the highest position ever granted to a woman in Missouri government: Assistant Director for Policy.

I like them.

 

[Glen]

Glen is correct as to my intent. My theory is that someone in OTL Robert Sacchi's XXth family is going to look pretty close to Bogart. That theory requires the "Bogie genes" to be so dominant that they existed in OTL Sacchi's parents or grandparents before 1900 (and I suppose, on the paternal side).

If you think that this is still too much of an assumption given the butterflies, feel free to shoot it down again.

I say go with it.

 

[reformer]

Actually, my comment is they may be a little late. We'eve really sped up civil rights. I bet the first event would happen in the 20s.