IIRC he's ending it when she retires.
Maybe we can have a sequel someday. That Whacky Redhead: The Next Generation sounds like a good title, don't you think?
IIRC he's ending it when she retires.
Maybe we can have a sequel someday. That Whacky Redhead: The Next Generation sounds like a good title, don't you think?
But Gerrold, having been in charge of the comic since 1971, was hardly a neutral arbiter, and in the ad hoc system which he devised in the mid-1970s, the comic was unsurprisingly assigned greater canonicity than any other Star Trek media bar the series proper; the official short-story episode adaptations, written by James Blish, occupied the next step down, and this became an early point of contention.
The much smaller cadre of American Who devotees (who, by analogy with Trekkies, became known as “Whovians”, though this term was not used elsewhere) [9] could not possibly counteract the more mainstream opinion held within the much larger Trekkie fandom.
For this reason (along with the more diffuse nature of “reality” in Doctor Who in general), the continuity of Star Trek was commonly considered fully intertwined with (if not subsumed within) that of Doctor Who – as a potential future from the vantage point of the UNIT years, and other references to the past in Star Trek were also to be considered part of the same timeline. This notion only curried favour as far as the fandom, and no further; the writers would never lock themselves into being forced to send the Doctor to the 1990s to fight Khan Noonien Singh in the Eugenics Wars, however tantalizing the idea might have proven to the certain contingents within the fanbase – at least, the British fanbase.
The implications that followed in terms of canonicity were that Star Trek and Doctor Who formed a shared reality only for the duration of the crossover, and never before nor after. The concept of a unified canon comprising both properties was therefore in contradiction of the parallelism theory of canonicity (which, granted, had been developed largely in response to the crossover and was therefore built around invalidating its implications).
One more ideologically neutral advantage to the parallelism theory, however, was that it helped to neatly reconcile the parallel reality which had been featured in the episode “Mirror, Mirror”; the universe which contained the Terran Empire was just as different as the one which contained the Doctor, despite the much stronger superficial similarities, although in this case the intersection took a different form (a “transposition”, which entailed solely characters crossing over as opposed to the settings themselves coming together). [12] Again, the reality of the “mirror” universe was only valid within the context of Star Trek for as long as the characters were transposed. Prior and subsequent events within that universe, according to the parallelism theory, had no significance within the canon.
A good point, but I think this is more a matter of perception than reality. One survey in the 1990s said that 52% of Americans considered themselves "fans of Star Trek" in the sense of they would watch it if it was on and they had some level of recognition or understanding of concepts like warp drive, transporters and so on. That's not too different from the mainstream public perception of Doctor Who in the UK, and there is the same distinction between hardcore fans and casuals. To my mind the difference is:"Trekky" and "Whovian" are labels adopted by people who perceived of themselves as minorities. Doctor Who fans in the UK, especially in the Seventies, didn't see themselves in that way. After all, you can hardly be in a ghetto if the Queen is there as well !
A good point, but I think this is more a matter of perception than reality. One survey in the 1990s said that 52% of Americans considered themselves "fans of Star Trek" in the sense of they would watch it if it was on and they had some level of recognition or understanding of concepts like warp drive, transporters and so on. That's not too different from the mainstream public perception of Doctor Who in the UK, and there is the same distinction between hardcore fans and casuals. To my mind the difference is:
1) Star Trek isn't as definitively American as Doctor Who is British; Star Trek has to compete with other big franchises like Star Wars, and is also explicitly internationalist in intent if not in practice;
2) America doesn't have a single centralised broadcasting institution like the BBC, which affects the way an individual programme is viewed as being emblematic of the nation of a whole or not.
And, it should be noted, one company had licenses for BOTH Star Trek and Doctor Who in RPG form. (FASA. My dad had the former, and I got a used copy of the latter.)A nascent form of self-expression in the early 80s... hm, perhaps it is my biases showing through, but I cannot help but think of a certain branch of role-playing which had (at least in our world) begun to emerge in the 70s but really hit its stride in the early 80s...
On the other hand, as the footnotes point out this was not an issue for the fandom of OTL Star Trek...As for the "concordance", I think it unlikely to be used in that context. Most would view a "concordance" in the religious context- a work designed to correlate references to various words, phrases or concepts in a single work or series of works.
I was referring to what the meaning may have been derived from.On the other hand, as the footnotes point out this was not an issue for the fandom of OTL Star Trek...
I'd also add that, IME, the Doctor Who fans who are most contemptuous of the term Whovian (rather than just shrugging and wondering what the point is) are the ones who work very hard to make a ghetto for themselves - the grumpy Classic Series fans who don't consider anyone whose favourite Doctor is David Tennant, or who quite enjoyed the Virgin New Adventures novels, to be a "proper" fan.
The OTL UK version of the Puritans, in other words.
Capital idea, Thande, and it's nice to see that your suggestion has already caught on! Of course, I'd love to find out what your first episode was...
As for me, my first episode was "The Devil in the Dark". I always felt that was a very strong introduction to the show. However, it was not my first Star Trek episode of any kind; that would be "Yesteryear". I assume this was because I watched a lot of cartoons as a kid, and TAS was technically a cartoon, after all...
Although the battle lines had been drawn along multiple front, the Trekkie fandom in the early-1980s still seemed to be entering something of an autumnal period; the years of callow enthusiasm, and then followed by resplendence and rejuvenation, were well behind them
I'm rather curious to read that, actually. "Bondage and Freedom" was my take on the "Cliché Storm" episode of Star Trek, which (to my delight and horror) turned out remarkably similar to the "formulaic action-adventure" concept which David Gerrold sketched out in The World of Star Trek (which contains a very impressive list of clichés, all of which he very sarcastically disdains as unworthy of what Star Trek should be about). Perhaps I should see if I can't find that story.I recall that someone on a predecessor to this site, amid a load of explicitly AH stories,* did "the lost Star Trek episode" which was about the ship accidentally time-travelling back to the American Revolutionary War. The reason I bring it up was that the writer seemed to use every Star Trek cliché, but in a subtle enough way that it wasn't explicitly a parody (aside from perhaps overdoing the 'redshirts getting killed' part).
Alas. Wikipedia claimed that it was only a slight modification of earlier logos - as always, we learn the pitfalls of trusting anything written on there.Correct on all points, except the station logo does not trigger any memory. Looking it up on Wikipedia, I see this version dates from 1975, after I had moved away.
Interesting. In the United States, scheduling is generally far more strict - though with a few exceptions, at least one of which will become relevant to TTL in later updates!Interesting question. One thing to bear in mind is that the BBC schedule included a number of shows made in the US which, without adverts, don't fit easily into a one hour time slot. That means that generally programmes didn't start on the hour.
An excellent reference. It would be interesting to speculate what shows Star Trek might replace during the years 1971-73 ITTL.NCW8 said:For the rest I'm not so sure - however, I've found a website that gives the schedules for some of the days when Star Trek was broadcast:
I grew up watching The Bugs Bunny and Tweety Show, which packaged all of the classic cartoons into a half-hour (or hour-long!) show. I didn't see any of the shorts on their own (or even with their original opening titles!) until years later. One thing you realize in retrospect from the compilation programs is how much better Chuck Jones was as a director (or perhaps, Michael Maltese was as a writer? More likely both) than all the others. Funny how virtually all the classics were his work.I remember in my childhood in the late 80s the Beeb (and ITV) were still enamoured of using classic Warner Brothers (mostly) cartoons to fill small gaps in the TV schedule. You wouldn't get that nowadays, and it's a bit of a shame. What with the rise of dedicated digital channels, anything classed as 'for kids' ends up ghettoised away from the sight of adults, and as a result you start to lose the 'parental bonus' style of writing because there's no motivation for it.
What amuses me about TAS was the schizophrenic tone - it tried very hard to be Star Trek (and, for the most part, it was), but it was also a Filmation cartoon made in the 1970s, and it crammed so much plot into those 22 minutes that the pacing was abominable. Of course, children don't tend to notice that sort of thingI'm not sure whether they had TOS or not (it was a pretty small store, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were missing), but I suspect even if they did that the more child-oriented nature of TAS would probably have directed me towards that show anyway. I was probably browsing in the kids section, spotted it and though 'oh, like that cool film I saw!'. I especially remember i-Chaya and Giant Spock as being highlights.
Look at it this way. At least things actually happen in tennis. It sure beats a game where people throw an egg-shaped "ball" and then stand around for an hour.nixonshead said:At least at that stage they showed both rather than just bumped Trek. I hate Wimbledon!!!
Well, was your assumption correct, Clorox?Okay, I think I know what the next update is about... but as opposed to last time, I'm keeping it to my self this time.
I admire your ethics, LordInsane - though it's unfortunate that you were spoiled beforehand. I was lucky in that regard, since I was able to go into most of the episodes cold.Well after subbing was standard practice - it has been standard practice for as long as I can remember. For various reasons, mainly the fact of which channel showed Star Trek and that I did not wish to pirate Star Trek, I didn't actually watch an episode until 2009 (which point I watched several episodes in rapid succession, since the channel showed one a day) - and by then I had already read up on episodes, since it didn't look likely that I'd get to see them legally.
Which premiered over twenty years ago. Not really an exception, I'm afraidVery true. Thankfully there have been a few exceptions, such as Animaniacs.
Are you telling me they don't bump shows for the Olympics any more? I find that hard to believe - though admirable, if true.NCW8 said:That used to happen quite a lot, especially when the Olympics were on.
Thank you, John, and welcome aboard!A very good and attractive TL.
Dan has revealed the worst-kept secret of this thread I couldn't end the timeline with her death - that would be far too depressing for what I feel has otherwise been a relatively optimistic timeline. Orson Welles said it best: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story."John Spangler said:A little question:you said that the story is almost done:did you mean that you'll stop when Lucille Ball dies ?
IIRC he's ending it when she retires.
Yes, I think I've seen that one as well. I believe he was in the company of Captain Kirk, whom he usually calls Jim, and he pronounced the redshirt dead.I'm pretty sure the same episode had McCoy examining the body of a redshirt, although I don't recall if he announced his findings...
A number of you have asked after a sequel, and though I find that immensely gratifying, to be honest I'm inclined to agree with Dan. For one thing, what would I call my timeline if I were to create a sequel? Not to mention that, like TWR herself, I'm something of a perfectionist; I would much rather refine what I've already written than work on something new. This timeline is already the single longest thing I've ever written, and whenever I look back on prior updates I very often feel the urge to go back and fix all the mistakes I notice. But I have to keep moving forward, because if I stop to do that I may never restart. Once the timeline is finished, however...Maybe we can have a sequel someday. That Whacky Redhead: The Next Generation sounds like a good title, don't you think?
Not really, IMO. Any sequel would not work w/o Lucy still around, unfortunately. And that's my honest opinion.
You are very perceptive, LordInsane. Yes, our next visit to Appendix A will focus on a topic in which you've expressed considerable interest...A nascent form of self-expression in the early 80s... hm, perhaps it is my biases showing through, but I cannot help but think of a certain branch of role-playing which had (at least in our world) begun to emerge in the 70s but really hit its stride in the early 80s...
I never owned or read any of the Blish short-stories, but one of my consultants owns most of them and he has read excerpts to me to give me an example of Blish's writing style. It is very good without necessarily being strictly true to the show. The pacing is certainly more deliberate, which makes the stories that much more intriguing.From what I remember of the Blish adaptions (which were pretty good), he did tend to add his own ideas to the story lines. For example, he included a mention of the Vegan Tyranny in his adaption of Tomorrow is Yesterday.
To an extent, although I think that Trekker, as opposed to Trekkie, carries a stronger connotation of this attitude.NCW8 said:"Trekky" and "Whovian" are labels adopted by people who perceived of themselves as minorities.
Was it actually known, all the way back in the 1970s, that HM the Queen was a fan?NCW8 said:Doctor Who fans in the UK, especially in the Seventies, didn't see themselves in that way. After all, you can hardly be in a ghetto if the Queen is there as well !
It's a delicate balance. Remember that Star Trek didn't come out of first run in the UK until 1973 - halfway through the Yank Years. Memories of the show are still very fresh, and very warm, even in the doldrums of Angela Bowie. And honestly, there are a lot of really fun story ideas that could come from a "concordant" stance: really, wouldn't the Doctor fighting Khan Noonien Singh in the Eugenics Wars be fun to see? That would never, ever, happen in canon, so the only place where it could is in fanworks.NCW8 said:I can see that being the case immediately after the crossover episode. However, as time passes and especially if there is any large scale disillusionment with the "Yank Years", I can see that view fading away. While Starship from the Future will remain part of Doctor Who canon, it will become one of the many milieus that the Doctor visited once and never went back to.
Later series? Someone may be getting rather ahead of himself...NCW8 said:That's going to be interesting if later series want to revisit the Mirror Universe
Thank you, ThandeInteresting update.
Thande, I am honoured and humbled, and will wear the crown with pride Would you mind if I quoted your endorsement on the wiki page?Thande said:It occurs to me that Brainbin may have stolen the "transcendentally nerdiest conceivable subject to write about" crown from me, as he has now written about arguments between different Star Trek fan subcultures resulting from a different version of Star Trek in an alternate universe--which I believe trumps my "arguments about definitions of genres of science fiction literature in an alternate universe" in LTTW
People after my own heart, then But in all earnestness, an excellent point, Daibhid. The Puritans are definitely not intended to be at all far-fetched.I'd also add that, IME, the Doctor Who fans who are most contemptuous of the term Whovian (rather than just shrugging and wondering what the point is) are the ones who work very hard to make a ghetto for themselves - the grumpy Classic Series fans who don't consider anyone whose favourite Doctor is David Tennant, or who quite enjoyed the Virgin New Adventures novels, to be a "proper" fan.
The OTL UK version of the Puritans, in other words.
In addition to LordInsane's point, Orville, I remind you that canon is also a religious term that has been appropriated for use as a fandom definition, and it enjoys universal recognition as such. I really don't see why concordance, defined (ahead of the religious definition) as "agreement" or "harmony", wouldn't also find the same niche.As for the "concordance", I think it unlikely to be used in that context. Most would view a "concordance" in the religious context- a work designed to correlate references to various words, phrases or concepts in a single work or series of works.
On the other hand, as the footnotes point out this was not an issue for the fandom of OTL Star Trek...
I was referring to what the meaning may have been derived from.
Very cute, FalkenburgHow about "Who-ligans" as a gently dismissive sobriquet for those rambunctious, predominantly youthful, new adherents to the Doctor?
Thanks for sharing, Glen. It certainly is an iconic episode of Star Trek, regardless of the continuing debates over its quality.Hmmm - hazy, but maybe Arena.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but did you have any thoughts about the update that was just posted?The next update can't come soon enough.
Still running, middling ratings, not winning any awards.I wish to know the status of Eunice.
You'll find out in later cycles.MatthewFirth said:Also would the Golden Girls be broadcasting in this ATL.
Michael Billington remains as 007. As of 1981, he has starred in Moonraker, Live and Let Die, The Man with the Golden Gun, and The Spy Who Loved Me.MatthewFirth said:Also wish to know what the status is of the 007 series in this ATL.
Thank you for the compliment, Lavanya, and welcome aboard! I'm very pleased that this update was able to lure you out of lurkerdomMan, that whole update was an eerily apt take on the life cycle of a fandom.
Was it actually known, all the way back in the 1970s, that HM the Queen was a fan?