Fear, Loathing and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72

[Drew]

Flag of the Federal Republic (Third Republic) of Spain

Flag of the Federal Republic (Third Republic) of Spain

Liberty and Justice; Spain for all Her People

The New Spain where Freedom and Liberty are at home.

Over the course of the next few years the new Spain will be involved in a concious effort to follow in the path of the post-war Federal Republic of Germany in terms of creating a federal state, and in terms of not letting the past create problems for the future.

 

[Spengler]

I see a problem with that flag, Navarre is in it.

 

[Drew]

I see a problem with that flag, Navarre is in it.

Navarre is divided.

 

[Spengler]

Navarre is divided.

Oh sorry. Still it could create problems with the Basque seeing it as an afront.

 

[hsthompson]

I see a problem with that flag, Navarre is in it.

And two crowns on the shield of a Republican flag, by the way, might be far too many. The one on the right... isn't it a Bourbon crown, with three fleur de lys?

I think they might completely remove all the shields from the flag.

EDIT: You're right, Navarra is half in Spain, so it counts. Not the most populated parts, though. I suppose they would join it to the part of Alava and La Rioja to create... something completely different. Then again, not unheard of in Spain.

 

[Expat]

Btw, have Bad Brains been mentioned?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Brains

If you want to fuse hardcore punk with African American interests...

They've also got a bit of a Reggae sound, which is another strain of music which hasn't been mentioned. I'd think it'd be a great chance for the genre to take hold. I can see it going more militant but also spreading a multi-cultural message of peace. Different strains could do both at the same time.

With people looking in some odd corners for god, how's Rastafarianism doing? Any chance more African Americans are turning to this?

Addendum: Bob Marley probably got cancer sometime in the mid-70s IOTL. What are your feelings on butterflies and cancer? IMO, we're dealing with randomly defective cell division, so it should be butterflied away and Marley should be able to live on.

 

[Pitt the Even Younger]

They've also got a bit of a Reggae sound, which is another strain of music which hasn't been mentioned. I'd think it'd be a great chance for the genre to take hold. I can see it going more militant but also spreading a multi-cultural message of peace. Different strains could do both at the same time.

Political reggae was popular in Britain in the late 1970s. You had bands like Steel Pulse and Aswad, as well as multicultural ska revivalists like the Specials and the Selecter who also had a political message. However, none of these bands ever became really big in America. Maybe they'd have more luck this time around?

Speaking of music, without Simon Le Bon, Duran Duran probably won't take off, which means that they'll never make their "blockbuster" music videos, which means that there might not be as much of a market for the New Romantic groups like Culture Club, Spandau Ballet and Visage (who relied heavily on videos) that helped to keep MTV going before Thriller and its videos rolled around, which might mean that MTV may struggle quite badly in this timeline.

One group that made relatively cheap but very popular videos at this time was Madness, who were very popular in the UK but only really had one hit in North America ("Our House"). Perhaps they could become New Wave darlings of MTV, provided they get a bigger push.

 

[Garrison]

Political reggae was popular in Britain in the late 1970s. You had bands like Steel Pulse and Aswad, as well as multicultural ska revivalists like the Specials and the Selecter who also had a political message. However, none of these bands ever became really big in America. Maybe they'd have more luck this time around?

I could certainly see 'Ghost Town' having more resonance ITTL for Americans.

 

[Dunois]

Great update Drew, it is good to see that things have stabilised in Spain and that the war with Portugal is over. The ting is that since Portugal got almost noting out of this save for extra casualties and such, I don't really see what they really gained from this war overall. At the very least Olivença might see its status negociated somehow.

Airey Neave as Conservative Party leader is interesting, I wonder what will happen with him at the helm.

Thatcher recycling herself as cheerleader for Apartheid South Africa is somewhat interesting. The situation there is of course a huge mess, but if South Africa can build up some kind of "alliance" with Chile, Taiwan, South Vietnam and other authoritarian states they might be able to survive for some time.

 

[John Farson]

Like I did with 1979, here's some music samples from OTL 1980 for flavour:

1) Ashes to Ashes - David Bowie
2) Buffalo Soldier - Bob Marley (recorded in 1980, released in 1983)
3) Biko - Peter Gabriel
4) De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da - The Police
5) Fame - Irene Cara
6) Upside Down - Diana Ross
7 (Just Like) Starting Over - John Lennon

With the worsening situation in Southern Africa, something like "Biko" might very well resonate more than OTL. John Lennon might also take up the anti-apartheid cause.

 

[John Farson]

Regardless of whatever support they receive from other authoritarian regimes and sympathizers in the West, South Africa and Rhodesia will undoubtably sink deeper and deeper into pariah state status. However, if the policies of Malan, Ina Bursey and their flunkies become more extreme/genocidal, their countries may come to be viewed less as African versions of the US Jim Crow South, and more like African versions of Nazi Germany.

Such a scenario would be a great propaganda gift to the East Block, as they could then accuse the US and her allies of backing modern-day versions of the Nazis. If horrendous S. African/White Rhodesian atrocities come to light, they would be hugely embarrassing to those right-wing elements in the West who have backed them, similar to how the eventual revelation of the horrors of the Lesser Mao's China will be hugely embarrassing to those far-left elements that have backed them, or at least regarded them as the aggrieved party, like Barbara Castle.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

If horrendous S. African/White Rhodesian atrocities come to light, they would be hugely embarrassing to those right-wing elements in the West who have backed them, similar to how the eventual revelation of the horrors of the Lesser Mao's China will be hugely embarrassing to those far-left elements that have backed them, or at least regarded them as the aggrieved party, like Barbara Castle.

It couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of idiots.

 

[Deleted member 40957]

Such a scenario would be a great propaganda gift to the East Block, as they could then accuse the US and her allies of backing modern-day versions of the Nazis. If horrendous S. African/White Rhodesian atrocities come to light, they would be hugely embarrassing to those right-wing elements in the West who have backed them

It all depends on whether apartheid ends in a bloodbath. In the most dramatic (but unlikely) outcome - the whites self-exiled en masse, or forced into a Western Cape bantustan - there will still be considerable Western support for them, because of the grisly end of their society.

And yes, China is going to hurt some elements of the left, and I think Castle and Ralph Nader might end up as a laughingstock. Interestingly, though, more economically-oriented left-wing parties in Europe (as in, not the pacifist cultural left exemplified by Nader) are coming off very well. Berlinguer and Bobbio are national heroes in Italy, and Yugoslavia seems to be open and engaged with the West.

I think the Lesser Mao will backfire on the hippie legacy more than anything else, and possibly legitimize neoconservative interventionism before schedule.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Have the '80 and '84 Olympics been assigned as in OTL?

 

[John Farson]

Just out of curiosity, I compiled a list of the countries involved in the Rhodesian (or Southern African) War and their populations. The population figures are taken from the 1982 World Almanac and 1980 Hammond Almanac:

South Africa:

• Population (1980 est.): 29,290,000
• Ethnic composition (from 1980 Hammond Almanac): Africans 70.2%, Whites 17.5%, Coloreds 9.4%, Asians 2.9%

• Armed forces: 63,250 regulars, 135,000 reserves

Bophuthatswana:

• Population (1976 est.): 2,500,000

Transkei:

• Population (1979 est.): 2,200,000

Venda:

• Population (1978 est.): 357,000

Namibia (South-West Africa):

• Population (1978 est., from 1980 Hammond Almanac): 960,000

• Ethnic composition (Hammond Almanac): Africans 85%, Whites 15%

Rhodesia:

• Population (1980 est.): 7,360,000
• Ethnic composition: Shona 77%, Ndebele 19%, White 3%
• Armed forces: 10,800 regulars, 40,000 reserves in 1978-79

Angola:

• Population (1980 est.): 7,080,000
• Ethnic composition: Ovimbundu 38%, Kimbundu 23%, Bakongo 13%, European 1%, Mixed 2%
• Armed forces: 40,000 regulars

Zambia:

• Population (1979 est.): 5,649,000
• Ethnic composition: Africans 99%, Europeans and Asians 1%
• Armed forces: 14,300 regulars, 1,200 paramilitary

Mozambique:

• Population (1980 est.): 10,470,000
• Ethnic composition: Africans c. 100%
• Armed forces: 24,000 regulars

Botswana:

• Population (1980 est.): 820,000
• Ethnic composition: Mostly African, small numbers of Whites, Asians and Bushmen
• Armed forces: 1,000 regulars, 1,260 paramilitary

Also included in the war are the ZPLF, SWAPO, UNITA, RENAMO and Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK), though the last one is more of an urban guerrilla force rather than a guerrilla army.

Since these figures are taken from OTL, there is the caveat that they are most likely different TTL, especially with regards to population figures in Rhodesia and Botswana (people fleeing the fighting, getting killed). As the war intensifies the national and guerrilla armies would no doubt increase their numbers through conscription and recruitment. Then of course there are all the foreign fighters fighting on both sides to consider.

Still, I think this should show what a numerical disadvantage the S. Africans and White Rhodesians are working from. Out of a total population of about 67 million in the region (not including Lesotho and Swaziland, which are completely economically dependant upon S. Africa and won't do anything to piss off the behemoth that is their neighbour) the combined White population of S. Africa, Rhodesia and SW Africa is only about 5.5 million. No matter how good their militaries are, no matter how many Africans they manage to slaughter, demographics are working against them. This war could be similar to the Sino-Japanese War in that it will not matter how many battles the NRA wins, the other side will just refuse to give up, especially when they keep getting Soviet weapons, funds and advisors, like the Cubans. And meanwhile the bodybags keep piling up, the economy continues to deteriorate, more and more areas in Rhodesia become "no-go" areas for Whites, the Black South Africans get more and more restless...

 

[Archangel]

Flag of the Democratic Progressive Republic of Portugal

Impressive flag, Drew!

 

[Archangel]

Considering that here fascism in Spain lasted five years longer than OTL, during which the country has been brought to the brink of ruin, as well as Basque secession, might there be a greater backlash against it than there was OTL?

It could range from the sensible (investigating the fate of those who disappeared during the Spanish Civil War, exhuming mass graves etc.) to the more, ah, emotional (destroying Francoist symbols and monuments, like the Valle de los Caidos, vandalizing Franco's tomb and desecrating his remains, persecuting [maybe even lynching] known members of the old regime etc.). Might the new Spanish Republic go the route of West Germany and outright ban Fascist symbols and salutes in public?

There might not be a banning of Francoist parties or destruction of places like Valle de los caidos, but there might be prosecutions of high ranking Francoist officials who do not chose exile, and certainly there is a increased likelihood of investigation of Nationalist past atrocities.

I presume the Spanish Republican government in exile will quickly recognise the Third Republic as their legitimate successor?

You can be sure of that.

 

[Drew]

Like I did with 1979, here's some music samples from OTL 1980 for flavour:

1) Ashes to Ashes - David Bowie
2) Buffalo Soldier - Bob Marley (recorded in 1980, released in 1983)
3) Biko - Peter Gabriel
4) De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da - The Police
5) Fame - Irene Cara
6) Upside Down - Diana Ross
7 (Just Like) Starting Over - John Lennon

With the worsening situation in Southern Africa, something like "Biko" might very well resonate more than OTL. John Lennon might also take up the anti-apartheid cause.

Some very interesting choices.

One of the issues with this TL is that we could see some completely new music emerging and I'm not a "music" person per-se, for example I could see Peter Gabriel picking-up the theme of Biko and doing something else about Southern Africa in its present state.

Also, I don't see tourism to Sun City being much of an issue ITTL.

 

[Drew]

There might not be a banning of Francoist parties or destruction of places like Valle de los caidos, but there might be prosecutions of high ranking Francoist officials who do not chose exile, and certainly there is a increased likelihood of investigation of Nationalist past atrocities.

You can be sure of that.

There's going to be tension in the New Spain as this is worked out. No doubt some will want revenge while others will want to sweep the past away. You could be looking at something like the Truth and Reconcilliation Commission that occurred in South Africa OTL, or you could see trials such as Argentina. The political system is going to have to work that out.

The same on border resolution with the Basques and other issues. No one said a revolution brought a solution to all problems.

 

[Drew]

Impressive flag, Drew!

Thanks. Given I get a D- in the graphic arts department.

With the Spanish flag, it's open to debate = I was trying to approximate a flag that would tie Spain's past to its present so that it would represent the new Spanish Republic as a continuation of all of Spain's heritage and not the victory of one group or another. That's why I chose Republican as well as Royalist seals.

Alternatively the new Republic might come-up with a new coat of arms or seal to use in place of all three that has some meaning to the direction of the new Republic. Like I said, I'm not much of a grpahic artist.