Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

[Glen]

The Dominion of Southern America is now up against some pretty stiff competition in the Turtledove Best Timeline competition! Please dear readers, go and show your support for the DSA by voting for it in the poll!

Relevant links:

Best Timeline Poll Listings: Best Timeline Poll A----Best Timeline Poll B

Disaster!!! We are now 9 votes behind the front-runner in the Best Timeline Polls!!! If any of you who haven't voted yet wish to support the Dominion of Southern America timeline, NOW is the time. Please vote ASAP!!!!!

 

[Falastur]

we are filled to the brim with incomprehensible accents and dialects but they are all spelled the same, car in Jersey, car in Texas, car in Boston, car in London

What do you mean? Everyone knows that words said in London are exactly how the words are meant to be pronounced

Unless you speak with that horrible Cockney accent. Cockney is terrible

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

Disaster!!! We are now 9 votes behind the front-runner in the Best Timeline Polls!!! If any of you who haven't voted yet wish to support the Dominion of Southern America timeline, NOW is the time. Please vote ASAP!!!!!

When do polls close?

 

[sudfamsci]

something i forgot is that elsewhere a place name like Jersey means different things in the US then elsewhere, Jersey is new Jersey, Durham is Durham North Carolina, Birmingham, Alabama but we can't agree on how to say Louisville it gets worse on local levels

 

[Falastur]

but we can't agree on how to say Louisville

We can teach you how to say it if you want?

 

[sudfamsci]

We can teach you how to say it if you want?

you would make half the US mad at you either way

 

[sudfamsci]

can we have a city in dsa be called Durham and create an art school would it be durham school of the arts or would it have to be the school for art of Durham

 

[eschaton]

Some thoughts on English dialects:

Northern American English would be similar overall to the dialects of New England, New York, and the Upper Midwest IOTL. Speakers in the Maritimes may have a bit of a distinctive accent, but it will be seen as normal variety of New England English. Anglophones further in Canada will just talk like Americans - no Canadian rising or anything, since the area is being settled by a different population than historically.

Southern American English would combine what IOTL are considered Midland accents (Philadelphia through the Lower Midwest), and the northern band of OTL's Southern accent. How could Virginia ITTL be considered to speak more like Philadelphia than North Carolina? Essentially, I think there will be three reasons. One is merely political. Two is the DSA will pick up some British pronunciations of particular words (similar to how Canadian English, despite being more like American English, picked up some British-isms), while America's "Deep South" picks up Americanisms. Third is once language standardization begins, the idea of a "cultivated southern accent" will come to the fore, which will probably meld the area together more.

There will of course be outliers in the USA. I expect that people in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Baltimore will talk fairly distinctly and similarly to OTL - accents are generally set quite early in settlement history, with later immigrant groups doing little to change them besides adding more vocabulary. Newfoundland will continue to have its own odd accent, and of course there are the francophones to consider.

 

[Sovereign12]

What about Native American influence on accents in their regions? If they are being assimilated, rather than moved as per OTL, and have an increased population (comparatively to OTL again), I would think those areas may have a melding of how a particular Tribe would pronounce English with the accent of those moving into the same areas. Many words were taken from Native Americans languages for places, with assimilation I would think exchange would be greater in TTL.

 

[eschaton]

What about Native American influence on accents in their regions? If they are being assimilated, rather than moved as per OTL, and have an increased population (comparatively to OTL again), I would think those areas may have a melding of how a particular Tribe would pronounce English with the accent of those moving into the same areas. Many words were taken from Native Americans languages for places, with assimilation I would think exchange would be greater in TTL.

Are there such things as "Native American accents" IOTL? I think even in the case of still sizable groups like the Navajo they pretty much speak flawlessly whatever the American dialect standard is around them.

And ITTL, the assimilation policies would presumably make it harder, not easier, to retain their old languages, as instead of living on reservations they'd live interspaced with white people. Even if they keep distinctive accents when in rural areas, once the U.S. population starts to urbanize they'll move to cities and pick up whatever the local dialect is.

About the only case I could see a strong "Indian accent" developing is if Native Americans founded a city which later grew into a thriving metropolis. I don't think anywhere in the USA has enough of a concentration of Native Americans to pull this off, but if the DSA succeeds in pacifying the Navajo I suppose it could happen there.

 

[sudfamsci]

Are there such things as "Native American accents" IOTL? I think even in the case of still sizable groups like the Navajo they pretty much speak flawlessly whatever the American dialect standard is around them.

i have to disagree if you listen to many of the elders they have a heavy accent but as they lose their language they accent fades listen to the end of this song and say it sounds like the American south west http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1s9jd7OOcM&feature=BF&playnext=1&list=QL&index=17

 

[Glen]

The Dominion of Southern America is now up against some pretty stiff competition in the Turtledove Best Timeline competition! Please dear readers, go and show your support for the DSA by voting for it in the poll!

Relevant links:

Best Timeline Poll Listings: Best Timeline Poll A----Best Timeline Poll B

First, let me say - WOW, 45 VOTES FOR DSA!!!! That is incredible support!! Thank you so much, all of you. Sadly, this still has us eleven votes behind the front-runner. Polls close after Friday, so please do get your vote in if you have not already done so.

I am touched by the outpouring of support for this timeline. Thanks, ladies and gentlemen!

 

[Glen]

?Is there more Government supervision ITTL? OTL the east and Western Bound Rails raced pasteach other for about 10~12 miles.

More in the USA, about the same in the DSA.

It took Grant sending a Messenger to the two Railroad Heads, explaining that the Land Titles ended at the meeting point, to get the two Railroads to agree on a meeting point.

Hopefully these people will be more sensible.

 

[Glen]

i want to know more about the accents i know that you said earlier that they were the same but 1st which are the same, and till when? 2nd i can see the aristocracy staying as it was per arw

True. The upper class in the DSA may have a few more words and phrases from French (both Parisian and Quebequis).

but the addition of new emigrants will radically change thing for the poor. it would bring in new words and the Tenn. accent is gone replaced be native Americans what do they sound like?

Mostly in Indiana (OTL Tennessee) like Southerners, maybe with a bit of the sound you'd see in the Indian Territory OTL.

3rd how is Cajun french faring in Louisiana? is it more or less french is it a hard or soft aristocratic like olt or more Parisian like modern french?

Cajun in the backwoods is about the same as OTL, though there is a little bit more of a tinge of British terms being borrowed.

4th has central Carolina gotten its accent yet? or will it be butterflied way with out they massive move to Appalachia?

You lost me there a bit. Which Carolina, and which massive move to Appalachia?

5th how is Spanish faring in the Caribbean? how is common is Spanglish and how is it different from the type in the US i know many otl Cubans can't talk very well to rural continental Latinos?

Spanish is holding on for now, but bilingualism is growing by leaps and bounds. It really depends on class. Lower classes tend to still speak almost exclusively with some smattering of Spanish. Missle classes are pretty bilingual, and often lapses into Spanglish. Caribbean Spanish is becoming increasingly difficult for continentals to understand.

6th is the increase in Latinos going to flavor homeland speech i think it might help some of the English idea of language purity.

Not much. You will see plenty of loanwords, but they are almost the same as the OTL ones (lariat, salsa, etc.).

it would help me spell if they accepted a phonetic alphabet for those less used to English we refuse to make different languages so we are filled to the brim with incomprehensible accents and dialects but they are all spelled the same, car in Jersey, car in Texas, car in Boston, car in London, car in India yet you wouldn't know that by listening. sorry about the tie raid but that has always be a pain of mine but i would love to know some more detail on the accents

The English remain stubbornly stuck with their set of spellings (they're not that bad!).

also is Quebec altering the US's if so how s'il vous plaît et merci

Quebec and the French emigres have in fact caused some additional loan words to enter the American lexicon, but most of its effects are either in the neighboring states of the North or in higher society in the case of more Parisian French.

 

[Glen]

What do you mean? Everyone knows that words said in London are exactly how the words are meant to be pronounced
Unless you speak with that horrible Cockney accent. Cockney is terrible

Funny!

When do polls close?

Noonish Saturday.

something i forgot is that elsewhere a place name like Jersey means different things in the US then elsewhere, Jersey is new Jersey, Durham is Durham North Carolina, Birmingham, Alabama but we can't agree on how to say Louisville it gets worse on local levels

We can teach you how to say it if you want?

you would make half the US mad at you either way

Now, now...

can we have a city in dsa be called Durham and create an art school would it be durham school of the arts or would it have to be the school for art of Durham

I will take it under advisement.

 

[Glen]

Some thoughts on English dialects:

Northern American English would be similar overall to the dialects of New England, New York, and the Upper Midwest IOTL. Speakers in the Maritimes may have a bit of a distinctive accent, but it will be seen as normal variety of New England English. Anglophones further in Canada will just talk like Americans - no Canadian rising or anything, since the area is being settled by a different population than historically.

Yes, except a bit more Celtic influence in the Maritimes than OTL.

Southern American English would combine what IOTL are considered Midland accents (Philadelphia through the Lower Midwest), and the northern band of OTL's Southern accent.

Probably Midland will squeeze out the northern band of OTL's Southern Accent.

How could Virginia ITTL be considered to speak more like Philadelphia than North Carolina? Essentially, I think there will be three reasons. One is merely political. Two is the DSA will pick up some British pronunciations of particular words (similar to how Canadian English, despite being more like American English, picked up some British-isms), while America's "Deep South" picks up Americanisms. Third is once language standardization begins, the idea of a "cultivated southern accent" will come to the fore, which will probably meld the area together more.

Virginian will have more Midland influence than OTL.

There will of course be outliers in the USA. I expect that people in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Baltimore will talk fairly distinctly and similarly to OTL - accents are generally set quite early in settlement history, with later immigrant groups doing little to change them besides adding more vocabulary. Newfoundland will continue to have its own odd accent, and of course there are the francophones to consider.

Probably.

 

[Glen]

What about Native American influence on accents in their regions? If they are being assimilated, rather than moved as per OTL, and have an increased population (comparatively to OTL again), I would think those areas may have a melding of how a particular Tribe would pronounce English with the accent of those moving into the same areas. Many words were taken from Native Americans languages for places, with assimilation I would think exchange would be greater in TTL.

Quite possible.

Are there such things as "Native American accents" IOTL? I think even in the case of still sizable groups like the Navajo they pretty much speak flawlessly whatever the American dialect standard is around them.

Some certainly do, yes, but do they all?

And ITTL, the assimilation policies would presumably make it harder, not easier, to retain their old languages, as instead of living on reservations they'd live interspaced with white people. Even if they keep distinctive accents when in rural areas, once the U.S. population starts to urbanize they'll move to cities and pick up whatever the local dialect is.

Yep, this is very true.

About the only case I could see a strong "Indian accent" developing is if Native Americans founded a city which later grew into a thriving metropolis. I don't think anywhere in the USA has enough of a concentration of Native Americans to pull this off, but if the DSA succeeds in pacifying the Navajo I suppose it could happen there.

Probably not a city - Indian accents are probably pretty heavy up in the north in the Hudson Territory.

i have to disagree if you listen to many of the elders they have a heavy accent but as they lose their language they accent fades listen to the end of this song and say it sounds like the American south west http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1s9jd7OOcM&feature=BF&playnext=1&list=QL&index=17

Thanks for the link!

 

[Earl_of_Somerset]

A couple things

1. I've forgotten that there is a Gold Rush about to happen in austraila right now

2.Will There be a Scramble for Africa? Will DSA or USA gain Colonies?

3. Any chance for a war on the DSA's Doorstep or in it?

4.Were closing in on 2,000 comments

 

[Glen]

A couple things

1. I've forgotten that there is a Gold Rush about to happen in austraila right now

True.

2.Will There be a Scramble for Africa?

Maybe.

Will DSA or USA gain Colonies?

Time will tell.

3. Any chance for a war on the DSA's Doorstep or in it?

Oh, there's always a chance...

4.Were closing in on 2,000 comments

Wow! Now that is cool! Thanks everyone!!!

 

[Glen]

The Dominion of Southern America is now up against some pretty stiff competition in the Turtledove Best Timeline competition! Please dear readers, go and show your support for the DSA by voting for it in the poll!

Relevant links:

Best Timeline Poll Listings: Best Timeline Poll A----Best Timeline Poll B

In the race for Best Timeline, we're closing the gap - we are only 9 votes behind the front runner! And only one more vote to have 50 votes for the timeline. Thanks to all of you who have voted for the timeline.

And if you have not already voted, PLEASE VOTE DSA!!!!