Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.

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  1. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    who is in the lead?
     
  2. DuQuense Commisioned Officer CSN

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    Eeh -Wot, No Great White North -- ?Who will Cartman blame for killing Kenny?
     
  3. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    It is a tie between EdT's "Fight and Be Right" and statichaos' World of Laughter, World of Tears.

    We are in third 10 votes behind them. And we're still stuck at 49!
     
  4. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Southrons.:cool:
     
  5. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Hispaniola has a complicated history in the British Empire. After the Napoleonic Wars, the British administered both sides of the island as a single colony. The tensions on the island after the disasterous slave uprisings there were kept close to the surface for a generation or more. British colonial governors kept an uneasy peace there. Slavery remained until the 1830s, though there were many more free people, but the slave-owners of Hispaniola were as often gens de couleur or mixed race as they were pure European, and some were even free blacks. The upper classes that remained after the chaos of the war were French speaking in the west of the island and Spanish speaking in the east, but in general the slaves spoke their own creole. Over the decades, however, things would shift. English would, ironically, become the lingua franca of the next generation to share the island, and English terms would being to infuse the slave creole. Many of the free people of color of the island converted to Anglican and taught their children English, wanting to sever their relation with the hypocritical French who had fought for their freedom while fighting to keep people enslaved on the island. Some too of the upper classes would take on British ways as a means of advancement in the new order, and to fit in with the influx of British through the 1810s - 1820s. Still others, especially among the Spanish speaking easterners, clung to their language and their Catholic faith, or even left for Spain or the new Latin nations of New World.

    During the Slaver Uprising, most members of Hispaniola acquiesced to the British mandate of emancipation and reaped the benefits of loyalty (many remembered the stories of their parents and grandparents of the last time freedom had been promised than denied on their island). By the time of the Uprising, Hispaniola had regained much of its profitabilit;, again a jewel of the Caribbean. While the Hispaniolans sent representatives to the first meeting on a proposed union of British Colonies in the New World, none of the factions that held the balance of power on Hispaniola felt that it was in their benefit to join with the rest of the British colonies, and decided to seek their own way. Most of the upper class whites of the island wished to remain a colonial territory under direct supervision from London, which they saw as a protection against possible unrest among the various factions of mulattos, spaniards, and free blacks, themselves divided by class. On the other hand, as the experiment with responsible government in the new Dominion of Southern America moved forward, seemingly with success, the proud Hispaniolans began to wonder if they were to be left behind, and more progressive elements in the various camps formed a loose coalition to seek not to join the Dominion of Southern America, but to have responsible government granted to Hispaniola in its own right. In 1858, London agreed to allow the experiment, and the second dominion of the British Empire, the Dominion of Hispaniola, was inaugurated.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Finally! A new dominion!

    Great Update, also will it just be 2 States, the French side and Spanish? or will it be balkanized?
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    It is not a federation the way that the DSA is. They fear too much division - keep your friends close, but your enemies closer, nez pas?
     
  8. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Just a single outright state? also what is the Capital?
     
  9. Earl_of_Somerset Banned

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    Flag Proposal

    Self Explanitory

    Hispaniola Flag Proposal.png
     
  10. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Awesome! Perhapsthe Dominion of Hispanola will be the Newfoundland of the DSA?
     
  11. Plumber Manifest Destiny inspired Lebensraum

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    You be stealing my thoughts! :mad::p
     
  12. Julius Vogel So

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    There is no fundamental problem with having a unitary dominion - in some situations, where the geographic area is reasonably compact, or an island like here, it might actually be a better idea, rather than federalism for federalism's sake. There is also the cost aspect as well - running half a dozen states alongside the federal government can make for ineffiency and unecessary duplication.

    Colonies that are larger/dispersed, more heavily populated or with distinct regional cultural-ethnic groups perhaps are more naturally suited to federal or looser government types

    NZ experimented with this as well for about three decades before centralising in 1876, IOTL. This was probably aided by the fact that the Settler governments were pretty ethnically homogenous and settlement happened pretty quickly (space of about 3 decades). Noting of course the lack of consultation with the indigenous
     
  13. eschaton Muckraker & Rabblerouser

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    Not accurate. Hispaniola has millions of people and ample natural resources, not a few hundred thousand and some fish.

    If they stumble, badly, I could see them being swallowed up by the DSA, particularly because culturally it seems there will be little difference between Hispaniola and the DSA islands in the Caribbean (everything else).

    That said, there is little upside for them beyond being a wealthy, successful island. I suppose it's plausible if they do really well Britain will assign the Guyanas to them, rather than the DSA. And it's plausible the Lesser Antilles, if it's left up to self-determination, may decide to go with Hispaniola (better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond after all). I think both are rather unlikely.

    And I still say that while French Creole should begin going extinct (it did on most of the Anglophone Antilles except Dominica IOTL), Spanish will survive and thrive in the longer run.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  14. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    In fact, we are now at 52 votes and only 7 votes from being tied for the lead!
    Come on, dear readers, we can do it!!!!
     
  15. Nugax talks in diagrams

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    Interesting, but I think you're being a bit rosy about Hispaniola

    1) In the absence of slave labour, the economy of the western half (OTL Haiti) will crumble with greatly increased suger costs (especially as it has to compete to Cuba and the Eastern half, both places with better infrastructure and terrain and in the same imperial market).
    2) Thus you're going to get a mass movement from the West to the East (where the non-sugar crops are, and the mines) of black french speakers becoming a tense enroaching underclass to the mestizo spanish speakers.
    3) The Whites will probably pull out of the west too as there is no profit to be made sans slavery and the terrain and disease situation is unpleasent, and it will languish without investment.
    4) This isn't a recipe for a happy place.
     
  16. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    we are only 6 votes behind the front runner!
    SIX MORE VOTES, SIX MORE VOTES!!! We can do it! Do it for the DSA, do it because you love a Prussia-less AND Austria-less Germany! Do it for the Sable Legion! Do it for a Dominion of Hispaniola!!! :cool:
     
  17. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Do it for a new Union of Kalmar! Do it for a USA thats the largest nation in the world! Do it for a Virginian Border culture, a New York based, and an Arkansas settled by British gentelmen!
     
  18. Plumber Manifest Destiny inspired Lebensraum

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    Bah, I've been to Queensland already :p
     
  19. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    we are only 5 votes behind the front runner! Vote by agonizing vote, we are catching up!
    Here here! Indeed, do it for all this and more!:cool:
     
  20. sudfamsci theoretical weapons specialist

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    i was thinking North Carolina the Piedmont region including the area around Charlotte in south Carolina otl. after otl arw large push happoned into lost Cherokee lands not ending until the trail of tears

    you mean English? :p


    if my memory serves there was a gentler french revolution and a better more stable french monarchy has this influenced "proper" french?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011