Canada Wank (YACW)

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A thought on railway warfare...

Railways as a means for troop transportation are going to be fairly new to all forces and the side that can take advantage of this best has a large avantage in mobility.

Secondly do folks understand that destroying a railway is more than just removing the rails? Because (assuming the train stops in time) rails can be replaced relatvely fast but bridges and other construction bottlenecks can not.
 
British Preparation

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]...
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif](To jump ahead, the Maritimers end up accepting that they will end up under the rule of the 'King of Canada', whether it be technically part of 'The Kingdom of Canada' or a union of crowns or what, and however the political structure ends up. In exchange, 'Prince(ss) of Nova Scotia' is to be the title of the heir, and 'Duke/Duchess of New Brunswick' the second in line. (Think 'Prince of Wales' and 'Duke of York'.))[/FONT]
A very clever choice, Dathi!:)
 
Under the circumstances, that they realise they can't attack New England in strength yet, Clay is insane to actually raid them, if I'm reading your post correctly.:( Especially if the Americans are believing their own propaganda they might think to keep New England neutral, which would be a big bonus for them. [Both in terms of the manpower it could commit and the bases and resources]. However that surely goes right out the window if the US is actually raiding its borders.
The US is planning a straightforward attack, almost entirely by NY militia, across the border into Connecticut. It will fail, and then they dig in, making occasional desultory potshots across the border.

It's not going to be 'raids'.

Clay, politically, HAS to make at least a token effort, or so he believes, and the threat of an invasion/troops on the border will tie down troops that otherwise might go to the aid of the Canadians. At least that's the theory. It may not work quite as well in practice as Clay thinks.


I know Britain tends to put a high priority on diplomacy but sounds like its paying off nicely with a bit of a League of Nations being assembled.:D Also it sounds like a lot of it will be arriving nicely in time and come as a nasty surprise to the Americans. The EIC forces could also be very useful if those 10k forces in Mexico try something.
It's arriving on time for what the British THINK is the schedule.

Just to clarify Sophie and Peter will be crowned queen and king of Canada in 1st Feburary and the same day Charlotte will be made an empress. The latter is in Canada so depending on the timing of the US attack the heirs to the imperial throne and newly crowned Canadian royals will find themselves in the middle of a US attack. That will make things interesting. [Suspect that the US attack will come before that but with the preparations for the crowning and travel and communications the couple might find themselves sailing into a war zone. However I presume that Charlotte is being crowned in London? [Initially I read it as being in Canada but looking more closely that seems unlikely].
Didn't quite follow you there, I think you may have misunderstood something. Canadian coronation is scheduled to be in Winchester (London, ON as was) on 1 Feb, the same day that Charlotte is crowned Empress (over 3 kingdoms) in London England.

Sophia and Peter are 'spares' for the throne of England, as Leopold (the youngest brother) is now Prince of Wales, and heir.

Remember, too, that Sophia and Peter came over for William's wedding, and have been travelling the land that they may rule over. The plan was that sometime (relatively) shortly after the wedding that they would take over as Viceroy. Taking over as Queen and King was what was brought forward hurriedly and without proper preparation. So, no, no one is sailing into a war zone. Although the possibility of a war in '42 was allowed for, and their ship was escorted by Ships of the Line then.

Winchester is far enough inland that the US is unlikely to be able to reach it - and if, by some chance, they did, the royals and government can flee north or west or whatever direction the attack ISN'T coming from.

For the US to attack the fairly sparsely settled Protectorate, and places like Missouri and Louisiana that have perceptible numbers of American loyalists makes sense. To try to fight through fairly densely populated Ontario to the capital would only make sense if they were fighting Canada alone. The US isn't stupid (or deperate) enough here to try.
 
In case you wish a suggestion for a name for a military commander for the Portuguese forces, I would suggest the Pre-POD Bernardo de Sá Nogueira de Figueiredo, OTL 1st Marquis of Sá Nogueira, very much in line with TTL Portugal (even more than OTL), or an ATL version of the 2nd Baron of Quintela.
 
The US is planning a straightforward attack, almost entirely by NY militia, across the border into Connecticut. It will fail, and then they dig in, making occasional desultory potshots across the border.

It's not going to be 'raids'.

Clay, politically, HAS to make at least a token effort, or so he believes, and the threat of an invasion/troops on the border will tie down troops that otherwise might go to the aid of the Canadians. At least that's the theory. It may not work quite as well in practice as Clay thinks.

So it will basically be a variant of the Fenian raids that New England has to deal with? Interesting.


Winchester is far enough inland that the US is unlikely to be able to reach it - and if, by some chance, they did, the royals and government can flee north or west or whatever direction the attack ISN'T coming from.

For the US to attack the fairly sparsely settled Protectorate, and places like Missouri and Louisiana that have perceptible numbers of American loyalists makes sense. To try to fight through fairly densely populated Ontario to the capital would only make sense if they were fighting Canada alone. The US isn't stupid (or deperate) enough here to try.

Well, if the US were suffering massive losses in battle to 1812 level, they would probably be close to being THAT desperate for something like that to happen.
 
In case you wish a suggestion for a name for a military commander for the Portuguese forces, I would suggest the Pre-POD Bernardo de Sá Nogueira de Figueiredo, OTL 1st Marquis of Sá Nogueira, very much in line with TTL Portugal (even more than OTL), or an ATL version of the 2nd Baron of Quintela.

He sounds like an interesting enough figure in OTL:

Wiki said:
He never got married but he had a natural daughter by an unknown mother named Luísa Aglaé Fanny de Sá Nogueira, who married as his first wife her uncle Faustino de Paiva de Sá Nogueira (February 8, 1845 – May 18, 1920), without issue. He became their universal heir.

Who knew history could be THAT awesome? :D
 
Dathi

OK, understand now. [Rather lost track of what royals were about]. :eek:

Thanks

Steve

PS - While the Americans might not get anywhere near any royals if their attacking Canada and the royals are in Canada I suspect a lot of people in Britain will not be that discriminating about the actual geography.;)

The US is planning a straightforward attack, almost entirely by NY militia, across the border into Connecticut. It will fail, and then they dig in, making occasional desultory potshots across the border.

It's not going to be 'raids'.

Clay, politically, HAS to make at least a token effort, or so he believes, and the threat of an invasion/troops on the border will tie down troops that otherwise might go to the aid of the Canadians. At least that's the theory. It may not work quite as well in practice as Clay thinks.



It's arriving on time for what the British THINK is the schedule.


Didn't quite follow you there, I think you may have misunderstood something. Canadian coronation is scheduled to be in Winchester (London, ON as was) on 1 Feb, the same day that Charlotte is crowned Empress (over 3 kingdoms) in London England.

Sophia and Peter are 'spares' for the throne of England, as Leopold (the youngest brother) is now Prince of Wales, and heir.

Remember, too, that Sophia and Peter came over for William's wedding, and have been travelling the land that they may rule over. The plan was that sometime (relatively) shortly after the wedding that they would take over as Viceroy. Taking over as Queen and King was what was brought forward hurriedly and without proper preparation. So, no, no one is sailing into a war zone. Although the possibility of a war in '42 was allowed for, and their ship was escorted by Ships of the Line then.

Winchester is far enough inland that the US is unlikely to be able to reach it - and if, by some chance, they did, the royals and government can flee north or west or whatever direction the attack ISN'T coming from.

For the US to attack the fairly sparsely settled Protectorate, and places like Missouri and Louisiana that have perceptible numbers of American loyalists makes sense. To try to fight through fairly densely populated Ontario to the capital would only make sense if they were fighting Canada alone. The US isn't stupid (or deperate) enough here to try.
 
Hmm, the Chile providing of ships is a nice touch of cooperation, but at this point Chiles naval provision is effectively neligable compared British resources - they only had a handful of battleships and transports in the OTL 1836 War of the Confederation, and were still developing the lower reaches of the central valley as their main economic focus well into the 1850s.
 
Hmm, the Chile providing of ships is a nice touch of cooperation, but at this point Chiles naval provision is effectively neligable compared British resources - they only had a handful of battleships and transports in the OTL 1836 War of the Confederation, and were still developing the lower reaches of the central valley as their main economic focus well into the 1850s.
Sure, but they'll be used in the Pacific coast of the Americas where the British don't have much at all, and Mexico (the only US allied force) has even less. A small handful of transports to shuttle troops around and a couple of warships to bombard Mexican coastal towns would be a really help for the RN at this point.

Point is, I think Chile can spare a few ships more easily than they can spare army ATM...
 
The Partition of Massachusetts

One ?last? post before the war starts. Dan1988's guest contribution (lighted edited)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]The Partition of Massachusetts

As one modern-day New England scholar once put it: "It is an established fact that once a nation is established, there will be at least one city that dominates the culture of said nation." New England is no exception - indeed, one cursory look through New England history and one finds that the former Massachusetts Bay Colony is the one colony from which most of the other states were formed from - New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, and Connecticut were all states that were formed from the original Massachusetts Bay Colony, other than Massachusetts itself. In particular, Boston is the one city that dominates the entire country. For a country where state's rights were sacrosanct during most of its existence, the idea of a central city that dominates much of society would seem a bit odd. Nowhere was this more acute than in western Massachusetts. Geographically, socially, economically, and politically, Western Massachusetts was as different from Eastern Massachusetts as oil is different from vinegar. So, it would only seem natural at first to separate the West from the East and turn Western Massachusetts into a different state. With that, the political and economic dominance of Boston, the proponents thought, would be lessened greatly. After all, Worcester was chosen as the capital not just because of its convenient central location.

At first, there was some initial controversy, partly because there was really no model for splitting a state in New England since there was perceived to be no need for that - after all, there were only 5 states that seceded from the US, of which Maine was later separated from Massachusetts to become its own state. [1] Eventually, it was decided that Western Massachusetts would become its own state - after all, there was war on the horizon, and New England was making preparations just in case the US was stupid enough to decide to cross the border, so might as well get the "minor" stuff out of the way before they become problems later on. [2] Therefore, Western Massachusetts was to become its own state.

One question remained, though - the name. There were two options: Quabbin, based on a local Native American word "Nani-Quaben" which meant "place of many waters", and Berkshire, after the characteristic mountain range (and the westernmost county in Massachusetts at the time). Since New England was now more or less an ally of Britain, the name "Berkshire" was an obvious choice and thus became the name of the new state that covered what was Western Massachusetts, containing Berkshire, Hampshire, Hampden, and Franklin counties. Springfield was to become the state capital. Compared to what New England had to go through during the War, the Partition of Massachusetts was pretty painless.


--
[1] Maine was very much a special case, being geographically isolated from the rest of the state, and even its own census district. So its precedent could be conveniently ignored by the lawmakers when Western Massachusetts presented its petition.
[2] "Minor" as in probably not causing a nuisance since under normal circumstances it would be the last thing on anyone's agenda. The new state is declared on July 4, 1841.
 
Start of the War

Start of the War

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On 7 December 1842[1], the US government presents ultimata to the Ambassadors of Britain, Spain and New England, demanding the hand-over of all 'territory rightfully belonging to the United States' within one week. This was a major shock to the Spanish, especially when it became clear that the US was talking about all of Florida, not just the disputed area of West Florida (Pensacola to the Louisiana border, basically). [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All the governments refused, of course, but the ultimata were obviously meant to be unreasonable. Even if Spain or Britain had been interested in giving up any of the territory involved, the 1 week deadline didn't so much as allow time for the demand to reach London or Madrid, let alone be negotiated, debated and an answer returned. The ambassadors did, however, send off word immediately, not only to their capitals, but to the territories concerned. Fast message boats reached East Florida and Boston in a couple of days, Pensacola in 6 days and Mobile on the 7th (December 14). From there the message was passed on to New Orleans in British Louisiana, but by then the war had started, and messengers had already arrived announcing US forces marching into the Florida parishes.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From Boston, the message was carried throughout New England by rail, so the New England border forces were alerted in time. Messages also sent north by rail through Vermont, reaching Montreal (the 10th), then Toronto (11th ), Detroit and Bathurst (Toledo) the12th , Liverpool (Terre Haute) the 13th, and St. Louis the 14th. While not all the rail connexions were finished, the gaps could be crossed by post riders and the warning reached all of the Protectorate's border forts before the US forces crossed the frontier. Not that most of places had time to do more than drive a few herds of cattle, a handful of wagons loaded with grain and their families into the forts, and possibly send older relatives and mothers with small children fleeing north or west out of the Blue Coats' way. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On 15 December 1842, the US formally declared war on on Britain, New England and Spain, and her armies crossed the respective borders. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the New York-Connecticut border, a couple of thousand NY militia marched to the border, were met by a similar New Englander force, and after a few exchanges of fire, both sides fell back 100 yards and dug in. This front will be pretty passive for the foreseeable future. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From several ports along the Atlantic coast, especially from Long Island, various US ships set sail to harass the New England coast and quickly take shipping prizes before New Englander shipping would be able to take defensive measures.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In East Florida, 30k US troops march out of St. Augustine and advance almost unopposed south and west into Florida. Their major adversaries, which get worse as they advance, are 1) logistics 2) guerilla style warfare against supply lines by local blacks and Indians and 3) disease. Many of the milita (2/3 of the force) are put to work building and improving roads, and even extending rail out of St. Augustine, although that is a long term project.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In West Florida, 1k army and 3k militia (including 1k Cherokee) move toward Pensacola. When they arrive, it's obvious that the defences are strong enough to hold off that size group – but not so strong as to defeat it, so that force digs in around the town to try hold down those Spanish forces. After several months, Pensacola is stronger than ever (being able to be supplied by sea), and the US forces have been worn down by disease and guerilla attacks, so they retreat 'Until more forces are available.'[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Similarly, about 1k men approach Mobile, but are driven off before any but their scouts are able even to see the city. Quite obviously, this isn't going to be a fruitful approach, so these men withdraw and join the raiders into eastern Louisiana.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In eastern Louisiana, small groups sneak over the border and raid farms and kill especially blacks (particularly any blacks with a firearm). These are local militia, eventually totalling about 2k, and the raids weren't actually part of the US war plan. In fact, these raids were the first indication the Louisiana government had of war, and gave them extra time to prepare for the official invasion.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The main attack on Louisiana consists of some 30k army troops, with supporting militia, who have gathered along various ports on the US side of the Mississippi, mostly in Memphis, but also Vicksburg and Greenville, and with smaller contingents at river mouths all the way down. The first of these troops will descend the Mississippi river towards New Orleans on barges and rafts and riverboats, picking up more and more troops as they descend. Of the 20k militia allotted for this prong, half accompany the army (at least to start with) and half man forts on the US side and provide logistics support.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However the biggest US attack is 100k army troops (with militia in support), most of whom head out of Vincennes heading north and west. But small groups also attack north out of (what was) southern Illinois and Indiana and west out of Ohio to cut the railway line connecting Toledo with St. Louis and all the forts in between. This allows the US to cut off each fort and strong point, and attack each in detail, concentrating large forces on each isolated strongpoint in turn. (Note that some of the rail running west from the Wabash (basically OTL's Indiana/Illinois border) and the rail running along the Wabash is preserved, as the US is confident they can take and hold this land, and want to use that rail for their own logistics.)[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Indianapolis and Liverpool[2] and the entire length of the Maumee river from Ft.Wayne to Bathurst [Toledo] are centres of British strength and well fortified. The US leaves them alone for now and concentrates on trying to isolate them from each other and from the smaller forts, and then roll up the forts one by one. This will give the US troops experience and seasoning, and, they hope, will allow the later reduction of at least Liverpool before spring breakup and Britain can send troops and other reinforcements.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A small scale raid is also sent against the Welland Canal. Handfuls of men with kegs of gunpowder sneak across the border and attack locks, the viaduct, and the feeder canal. Those that return report great success. Indeed, there was some significant damage done, but it is all repaired by the time the canals reopen in the spring. So the major advantage to US ends up being the extra men tied up in defending the canal against future such attacks. A similar raid against the locks on the St. Lawrence was less successful – the attackers were identified and they fled before reaching the canal.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The final prong of the US attack, and one that was completely unexpected by most, was the 10k US troops spearheading a force of 30k Mexicans heading into Tejas to a) reconquer Tejas for Mexico, and b) to attack Louisiana from the west (or if Louisiana is taken by then, as hoped, the Mexican troops can either help with attacks elsewhere or hold US Louisiana, freeing the US troops for elsewhere). [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mexico didn't issue any ultimata, nor did it declare war. At this point, she is 'simply subduing a rebellious province', and that doesn't require a declaration of war. If Mexican troops end up fighting against Louisiana, there would have to be a declaration then, but that is not imminent. Mexico even has faint hopes that she might avoid a wider war with Britain. If Louisiana is conquered by the US and is US territory – then an ally can help hold it without warring against Britain, right? Maybe Britain will be too busy with the US and throw Tejas to the wolves, not picking a fight with Mexico. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The US also approached the Dominican Republic (their only other ally) for troops. They declined to provide troops at the moment, and refused to declare war on Britain – but held open the possibility of providing occupation troops for West Florida after the US conquered the area. [/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 Given the totally unreasonable deadline for this ultimatum, the Prime Minister in Parliament called December 7 “A date which will live in infamy”.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 Remember Indianapolis is a different city, but roughly in the same place. Liverpool is the settlement grown up around Fort Liverpool (Fort Harrison as was), and is in the northern suburbs of OTL's Terre Haute.[/FONT]
 
Oh dear oh dear. However this ends, if there is an equivalent of the Crimean war at least the British War effort will not be such an epic pile of fail.
 
Dathi

I know you used 7th December partly as a joke but think it's going to be all too accurate in terms of how angry the various victims are going to be. Also attacking all their neighbours is going to really stretch the US. This could be quite a long war but its going to be bloody and costly, especially for the US. They have big and elaborate plans but I suspect its not only in Florida that things are going to come apart.

I think the big question in the short term is how much have the US learnt from the previous conflict about logistics. They have much better communications and supply lines but an advance by ~100k men in mid-winter is going to need some very good planning and a lot of luck or things could get very bad for the forces involved.

With Mexico's stance - 'we're not at war with you, honest gov' have they made any statement about the central American state - forget exactly what it was called? If they have made commitments not to attack that and show signs of keeping them then Britain might find it useful to keep up a state of phoney war, at least for the moment.

On that matter wasn't the Texan ruler a member of the Bavarian dynasty. That might be useful for some support for him. I would also expect that, unless Texas gets conquered pretty quickly, which I suspect it won't, Britain and the rest of the alliance will come to its support sooner or later.

Anyway, the ball is now in play. Lets see how things develop.

Thanks

Steve
 
It's hard to search this thread for this information. Did the U.S. ever actually recognize the USNE as a separate nation, so that they would have an ambassador to give an ultimatum too?
 
It's hard to search this thread for this information. Did the U.S. ever actually recognize the USNE as a separate nation, so that they would have an ambassador to give an ultimatum too?

They did, as part of a treaty that concluded the *War of 1812.
 
I know you used 7th December partly as a joke but think it's going to be all too accurate in terms of how angry the various victims are going to be. Also attacking all their neighbours is going to really stretch the US. This could be quite a long war but its going to be bloody and costly, especially for the US. They have big and elaborate plans but I suspect its not only in Florida that things are going to come apart.

Well, pretty much Henry Clay's rhetoric is spinning out of his control - hence we have militia in some conflict zones (including a stalemate along the NY/CT border). I don't know what Dathi has in store, but yeah - no one's amused at this point. Particularly since this is not going to be a long war by any stretch of the imagination.

I think the big question in the short term is how much have the US learnt from the previous conflict about logistics. They have much better communications and supply lines but an advance by ~100k men in mid-winter is going to need some very good planning and a lot of luck or things could get very bad for the forces involved.

Seriously, I doubt it, probably because the thinking in Washington is that nothing has changed (much), when the reality is that a lot has changed - for example, New England has now developed its own culture and national identity separate from the US, so they wouldn't look too kindly on any American attempt to conquer it. Not to mention that the New England economy has most likely developed to such a degree where essentially the US is pretty much left out of the picture and thus New England's economy is essentially independent of the American economy. Hence the logistics operations in New England are going to be different. Thus, any American attempt to take over New England is going to run into massive logistical problems, in addition to massive hostility.

On that matter wasn't the Texan ruler a member of the Bavarian dynasty. That might be useful for some support for him. I would also expect that, unless Texas gets conquered pretty quickly, which I suspect it won't, Britain and the rest of the alliance will come to its support sooner or later.

I think he is.
 
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