It's interesting to see Kennedy and Johnson almost weighed down by each other in their interactions. Johnson's scandals out of the Presidency are far easier to blot out than his scandals in, so seeing some of them come back to bite him, and at the worst possible time, is a great twist! ...I'm not sure how much Hoffa can do from prison, but nonetheless, I fear very much for RFK. Even more so than usual!
A Time For Greatness: The Alternate Presidency of John F. Kennedy and beyond
- Thread starter PickledFish
- Start date
Well, Rocky got his ass beat in the 64 primaries due to his divorce... so who knows, does he keep his pants on ITTL? Idk.... would be interesting to see though.
The cut above Liston’s eye badly impacted his performance which led to Ali’s quicker victory ITTL.
Hey PickledFish, think you could update us on what Elvis is doing ittl? Also loving the thread, keep up the good work!
Sure, I’ll make an update about Elvis in my next post. Happy to oblige.
The Ballot or the Bullet, McNamara at Ford, the death of a king, and an update the student protest movement
Malcolm X and the Black Veterans of Cuba
On April 4th, 1964, Malcolm X gave his now famous “Ballot or the Bullet” speech at the Cory Methodist Church in Cleveland, Ohio.In the speech, he expressed skepticism over Kennedy’s commitment to civil rights, called on African Americans to exercise their right to vote. He warned it may be necessary to use force if the rights of African Americans were continually denied:
Several disillusioned members of the Black Veterans of Cuba were in attendance that night and approached X following the speech.
The Black Veterans of Cuba had experienced a schism in the wake of the death of Riley L. Pitts, between those who sought to embrace nonviolence and political activism, and those who sought to double down on militant activities.
Malcolm X’s speech had resonated with members of the latter group, and it would not be long before a significant number of them sought to follow X.
As such, the Afro-American Self Defense League (AASDL) was formed, led by X, in the weeks following the “Ballot or the Bullet” speech.
It was separate from Muslim Mosque, Inc., and made up of black veterans, and any African American who embraced X’s worldview of self defense and black nationalism. One did not necessarily have to be a Muslim to participate, but many members did convert to Islam in accordance with X’s own views.
When X converted to Sunni Islam, many members of the AASDL joined him in doing so, but the group’s actions were separate from X’s faith-based works.
This group followed X everywhere, acting as his unofficial bodyguards and assisting X in his activism.
The other groups began by X, Muslim Mosque, Inc. and the Organization of Afro-American Unity, similarly attracted large following and much attention.
In the short time since leaving the Nation of Islam, X had firmly established himself as one of the most prominent leaders of the civil rights movement.
McNamara at Ford
On April 17th, 1964, the Ford Redwing was released to the public.Brainchild of Ford company President, Robert McNamara, the Redwing was a front wheel drive, V4 with an aesthetic similar to the UK built Ford Corsair.
This, as well as the Ford Cardinal released to the public in 1962, had been McNamara’s major contributions to the legacy of Ford, following the disappointment of the Ford Falcon.
The Cardinal was a small family car of front wheel drive design, also possessing a newly designed compact V4 engine.
Both cars would prove successful, though neither set the world on fire. Furthermore, the front-wheel drive design proved controversial, as many in the auto industry believed it to be overly and needlessly complex.
This, combined with McNamara’s less-than-affable personal style, made him a controversial figure inside Ford, and gained him few friends.
McNamara himself was becoming more and more disillusioned at Ford. For all his ability, McNamara's results at Ford never quit reached his own expectations.
There was an intangible element to the automobile industry that McNamara could never grasp.
The pay was obviously excellent, but he felt his talents could be put to better use elsewhere.
As such, a few days later, McNamara reached out to the Kennedy administration and made an offer.
If President Kennedy could secure a second term, McNamara would make himself available for any cabinet position the President wanted him to have.
President Kennedy himself called McNamara to affirm the agreement between the two.
The cabinet position that McNamara would take was a question for another day.
The death of a king
On the evening of April 25th, 1964, tragedy struck the world of music.Elvis Pressley, along with several members of his entourage, boarded his private plane, a 962 Lockheed JetStar.
The trip was to take Elvis from Las Vegas, Nevada, to his home in Memphis, Tennessee.
However, it was not to be. Mechanical failures saw the plane crash shortly after take-off, landing in the Nevada desert.
Everyone aboard was killed, including Elvis.
There was an immediate outpouring of grief at the death of someone already recognized as an American icon.
Some immediately suggested conspiracy – Elvis had a single scheduled for release “Viva Las Vegas” to coincide with the release of a film of the same name.
His death had made both these things from merely anticipated pieces of media, into cultural touchstones.
The fact that Elvis had died not far from Las Vegas, and in the state of Nevada, only made things more poetic.
However, no conspiracy was ever found or proven – though a number of le filmmakers, journalists and book writers would attempt to suggest one was at play. These conspiracies generally involved Elvis’ manager, Colonel Tom Parker, but never amounted to much more than speculation and scandal.
Officially, Elvis’ death was an accident, and the result of mechanical failure of his private plane.
The single “Viva Las Vegas” released only 3 days following Elvis’ death, would become the fastest and highest selling album in US history. It immediately shot to number 1 on music charts in the US, and achieved international success.
In time, it would be recognized as the 2nd best-selling physical single of all time, selling over 35 million copies by the 2010s, and being behind only Bing Crosby’s White Christmas in overall lifetime sales.
Presley’s death would see his final film, Viva Las Vegas, slated for release on May the 20th, become one of the most hotly anticipated motion picture releases of all time.
The states of Nevada, Mississippi and Tennessee would quickly erect monuments to Elvis in the weeks following his death.
He left behind no children and was never married.
However, waiting for him at his home – known as Graceland – was his girlfriend of nearly five years, 18-year-old Priscilla Ann Beaulieu.
This, and other sordid details of his life, would be spoken of in relation to Elvis’ legacy by some, particularly in the decades that followed.
However, to his millions of fans across the world, Elvis’ tragic and untimely death had elevated him to virtual sainthood.
In death, Elvis was more famous than ever.
An update on the anti-protest movement
The first major student protest against US involvement in Vietnam occurred on May 2nd, 1964.The so-called “May 2nd Movement” had its genesis among student organizers at Yale University in New York.
However, through the networks created during protests against the Cuban War, word spread and students in San Francisco, Boston, Seattle, and Madison, Wisconsin.
Thousands upon thousands of students marched to protest continued US involvement in southeast Asia.
Few elected officials wanted to be associated with the event.
However, Carlton Benjamin Goodlett, a newspaper publisher, physician, and leftist political activist, gave a speech following the march in San Francisco.
In front of a march of thousands, Goodlett called President Kennedy to unilaterally pull out of Vietnam:
To college students and leftist activists, Goodlett’s speech made him a hero overnight.
To these radicals, if Richard Nixon represented all that was evil, then Carlton Benjamin Goodlett would represent all that was good.
There was an immediate effort, in the days and weeks following the May 2nd Movement, to draft Goodlett to run against Nixon in the 1966 California gubernatorial election.
Nixon himself privately admitted to aides “beating that communist would be the easiest damn thing we ever do”.
None could deny that growing “counter-culture” phenomenon of the 1960s was taking shape – and it had a new patron saint.
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The “Ballot or the Bullet” speech is quite powerful. X is right that JFK should have passed the Civil Rights Act given the control of Congress.
Perhaps now is time to end the fillibuster and outlaw gerrymandering?
Will McNamara be running for office or just appointed to a posistion?
You killed Elvis Presley!
Admittedly at the height of his career, but still you killed Elvis!
Goodlett vs Nixon? Might be more of a fight than you think Dick.
Good chapter.
Perhaps now is time to end the fillibuster and outlaw gerrymandering?
Will McNamara be running for office or just appointed to a posistion?
You killed Elvis Presley!
Admittedly at the height of his career, but still you killed Elvis!
Goodlett vs Nixon? Might be more of a fight than you think Dick.
Good chapter.
Did you notice I changed parts of it to reflect this timeline? There are references to Cuba and JFK is mentioned instead of LBJ.
Appointed. He has been guaranteed a cabinet position if JFK wins a second term.
It honestly felt like the most poetic thing to do, given Elvis' association with Las Vegas. I also still wanted to maintain the undercurrent of tragedy that permeated through the 1960s, where icons of Americana were cut down in their primes, making them into even more popular figures.
Also, reading up on Elvis, he was a complete pig of a man. So his death in 1964, right before the release of his most famous film and one of his most famous songs, seemed like a way to celebrate his work, while also ensuring that the man could no longer keep hurting women.
Kick
Oh fuck you, just fuck you. "hurting women", fuck you. You proably think he's racist too. I was liking this tl but this bullshit officially turned me off, go fuck yourself.
Jeez, man. Calm down. Don't get so worked up over some TL you don't like.
Has Verwoerd still done the Bantustan program in South Africa? I wouldn't be surprised if the NOI might back this.
It's well documented that he treated women in his life awfully. Beyond the multiple, sourced accounts of him having sex with under-age girls, he was straight up abusive to many girlfriends and partners.
You can appreciate his music and his place in history, but objectively, he was not a good man.
I'll make an update about South Africa in my end of year international politics thread.
Ya, that's gonna have to be a big no from me, dawg.
You don't get to go after another member like that.
Not happening.
Kicked for a week.
The execucution of Fidel Castro, Casus belli, and preperations for war
The execution of Fidel Castro
On May 6th, 1964, Fidel Castro’s execution was carried out.Death by hanging was to be his fate.
He was walked to the gallows, flanked by two Free Cuban soldiers. Before the rope was put around his neck, Castro screamed “Viva la revolución!”.
The long drop method of hanging execution was used. However, Castro’s weight, and the height of the drop was miscalculated.
Because of this, the force of the drop saw Castro decapitated by the rope.
It was argued at the time, and by scholars in the decades afterwards, that the miscalculation was deliberate. A last insult to a failed revolutionary. But this, like so many other rumors of history, remains unproven.
Castro’s body was buried in the village of Biran, where he was born.
White House Press Secretary Pierre Salinger stated that he hoped “the death of Castro will mark a clean break from the Castro regime and a new beginning for Free Cuba”.
In the communist bloc, and in Latin America however, Castro was largely viewed as a martyr figure. This view was shared by many student protestors and young radicals, who held vigils for the now deceased Cuban revolutionary and burned JFK in effigy.
With Castro gone and elections for Free Cuba soon to be underway, it was truly a new day for the people of Cuba.
Casus belli
On May 12th, 1964, Secretary of Defence Paul Nitze arrived in Saigon, South Vietnam.Secretary Nitze’s goal was to develop a report on the progress of US involvement in Vietnam, particularly the strategic hamlet program and other efforts to aid the South Vietnamese government.
However, Nguyễn Văn Trỗi, a Viet Cong agent, had other plans.
Only hours after landing, President Kennedy received a chaotic stream of messages from the South Vietnamese leadership, US embassy and American military presence.
He immediately called an emergency cabinet meeting to make sense of what was being communicated.
An explosion had collapsed the Cong Ly Bridge at Saigon, as a convoy transporting Secretary Nitze and Ambassador Roger Hilsman was crossing it.
A short while later, information was disseminated through the media to the American public.
Ambassador Hillsman and Secretary Nitze had been killed, following a terrorist bombing of the Cong Ly Bridge in Saigon. They, along with several other American servicemen, diplomatic and Defense department staff, died when the bridge collapsed.
The Viet Cong took responsibility for the attack shortly thereafter, claiming it was “retaliation for acts of American aggression against the people of Vietnam”.
Tributes for the fallen were swift, as was a desire for revenge by the American public.
President Kennedy ordered all flags be flown at half-mast.
In a televised address before the American public, Kennedy promised justice for the fallen:
-- An except of President Kennedy’s speech on the evening on May 12th, 1964.
Other politicians, such as Richard Nixon, Barry Goldwater, Nelson Rockefeller, and George Wallace all commented on the attack:
-- Richard Nixon’s response to the events of May 12th, 1964
-- Barry Goldwater’s response to the events of May 12th, 1964
-- George Wallace’s response to the events of May 12th, 1964
-- Nelson Rockefeller’s response to the events of May 12th, 1964
A Gallup poll taken revealed that 87% of Americans wanted a military response to the killing of dozens of their own, along with two prominent public servants.
The American public had made clear their views – they wanted vengeance.
Once again, John F. Kennedy was to become a wartime President, whether he wanted to or not.
Diem’s response
Diem’s response to the killing of two prominent American figures, and over a dozen military personnel and diplomats. was swift and brutal.There was a major crackdown on perceived communist elements in Saigon. People were tortured to gain information about the identity of the attacker, and suspected communist sympathizers were executed in the street.
The death of two Americans was a blessing in disguise for Diem – he now had free reign to crack down on anyone he perceived as a “dissident” under the claim that he was rooting out communist infiltrators.
It would not be long before the perpetrator of the attack was discovered.
Nguyễn Văn Trỗi, an operative of the Viet Cong, was identified and captured by ARVN forces while trying to exfiltrate into Laos.
He was interrogated by ARNV forces, and then publicly executed 3 days later on television.
Many hawks in Congress praised the work of Diem, and there was an immediate call to have Diem give a speech before the United States Congress.
Many historians would later joke that “Ngo Dinh Diem was the most popular man in America following the events on May 12th, 1964”.
Meanwhile, Kennedy had assembled a task force to advise him on how to proceed with Vietnam, and the wider situation in Laos and Cambodia.
The world watched and waited, anticipating Kennedy’s next move.
The Nitze-Hillsman Resolution
There were no votes against the measure.
Kennedy now had virtually unlimited authority when it came to waging war in Southeast Asia. However, he would not engage in a ground invasion of the North, for fear of Communist China getting involved.
Laos was a question mark. Kennedy was unsure whether to involve troops there, as it also bordered China.
In the end, it was generally agreed that if the US forces entered Laos, they should only do so to cut off the Ho Chi Mihn trial.
As for the opening gambit, President Kennedy again looked to Eisenhower for advice.
The plan for American air power in Vietnam
Shortly after the deaths of Hillsman and Nitze, Kennedy created the National Security Council War Planning Committee to nail down a path forward in Vietnam, building off the previous work.A new addition to the group was Acting Defence Secretary Roswell Gilpatric.
President Eisenhower’s counsel had been invaluable in the planning stages of the successful invasion of Cuba, and Kennedy was eager to hear Eisenhower’s thoughts.
The idea of a gradual build-up of troops and force was suggested, but Eisenhower argued against the idea.
Instead, he advocated a massive show of force to open the conflict. A large, sustained bombing campaign designed to cripple North Vietnamese infrastructure industry, transportation, and air defenses.
This, along with a mining of the harbors in North Vietnam, would hopefully cripple North Vietnam’s ability to fight.
It had another goal – to sate the American public’s desire for reprisal.
Kennedy did not want to be involved in Vietnam forever. But trying to negotiate a peace agreement between the North and South this early after the death of so many American boys – not to mention a major cabinet member and Ambassador – would damage his Presidency and lead to him being viewed as a weak leader.
Once the North Vietnamese were sufficiency “punished” in the eyes of the American public, Kennedy could move toward a peace deal to end the conflict and permanently secure South Vietnam.
Privately, John and Bobby both had a great deal of respect for Paul Nitze and Roger Hillsman. The abilities and competency of these two men could not be disputed. The brothers wanted a pound of flesh for the loss of two people they considered friends and able, loyal public servants.
Thus, it was on this basis that Operation Heavyweight was approved.
The plan for ground forces in Vietnam
The presence of troops on the ground was devised according to the Strategic Initiative for Southeast Asia – US ground troops would act as force multipliers to assist ARNV troops in maintain the Strategic Hamlets, which remained an effective tool for counterinsurgency.Eisenhower approved of the strategy for ground troops.
In truth, while the Cuban War was a costly, drawn out endeavour, the US military learned much about guerrilla fighting and counter insurgency from the conflict.
Every single man who would make up America’s ground forces in Vietnam – and Laos and Cambodia if necessary – would be well versed in counter insurgency tactics born out of American involvement in the wilderness of Cuba.
Kennedy could also count on a number of different countries for assistance – Free Cuba, South Korea, Thailand and the Philippines would only surely offer aid.
Australia, under incumbent Prime Minister Arthur Calwell, refused to participate in the Vietnam War. Meanwhile, with an upcoming election in the UK, Kennedy was unsure whether he could count on Great Britain for support.
The incumbent PM, Douglas Alec-Home, was trailing badly in the polls and likely would not want to take a risk like committing the UK to a war. Hugh Gaitskell was a wildcard – he was anti-Communist, but involvement in Vietnam would likely bitterly divide his party.
It would be weeks before the US would send substantial numbers of ground troops, so there was still time to ascertain he would be allied, and who would sit out.
The psychological aspect of war
Eisenhower also explained that one of the most crucial aspects of war was psychological.As Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in Europe during the Second World War, Eisenhower championed the Psychological Warfare Division (PWD), which maintained four goals:
· Wage psychological warfare against the enemy
· Use various media to sustain the morale of people of friendly nations occupied by the enemy
· Conduct propaganda directed toward a military force and designed to ensure compliance with the instructions of the commander of the occupying force
· Control information services in Allied-occupied Germany
Not all of these were directly applicable to the situation in Vietnam, but there were lessons to be learned.
For one thing, Eisenhower suggested that US naval forces "practice amphibious invasion drills off the North Vietnamese coast so that both the civilian and military populations would worry about an imminent invasion from the sea."
This was advice that Kennedy would instruct the Navy to follow in the weeks and months to come.
For as much as it was necessary to demoralize the enemy, it was more important to keep the morale of South Vietnam high, and maintain public support for the war.
Kennedy was someone with a keen appreciation for maintaining a necessary image for the public, so ]he needed very little coaxing to embrace a strategy of maintaining morale for the war at home.
Among the South Vietnamese population, it was necessary to demonstrate American benevolence. The Strategic Hamlet and land reform programs already in place had seen some success, and Kennedy’s war planning committee was eager to continue this.
As such, the military would impose strict codes of conduct on American servicemen in Vietnam. The image of American troops as friends of the South Vietnamese populace was to be sacrosanct. Anyone found breaking this code, particularly in front of the press, would see themselves facing court martial.
On the subject of the press, US conflicts in Latin America had taught the US a few things about the impact of television news on warfare.
The images broadcast to US television screens, night after night, were a double edged sword in many ways. During US operations in Latin America, journalists had free reign to go where they pleased, for the most part.
It created heroes, like John McCain, but depictions of violence, inflicted on and caused by American troops, clearly distressed the American public.
Thus, the presence of news media was to be strictly monitored and controlled while they were in-country. Nothing would be shown to the public unless the White House and the military brass wanted them to see it.
Kennedy had spent too many sleepless nights agonizing over a war in Vietnam, yet now, it was here.
All the meticulous planning in the world could not alleviate the pit in his stomach.
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Was Castro's death filmed?
What was Goodlett's reaction to the death of Sec Nitze in Vietnam?
'suspected communist sympathizers were executed in the street.' - this is not how one conducts justice. This should give some pause before praising Diem's regime.
Operation Heavyweight - start heavy and see if that cows the opposition into talks/defeat? Might work in some places, but I suspect Vietnam is not one of them.
So censorship of the media - not a good thing, but one required for 'controlling the message' - I suspect govts. will learn this well for future conflicts. Though I be the press with get lots of 'scoops' from behind the lines in Vietnam.
A heavy code of conduct for soldiers on the ground will make a big difference to the locals I suspect. Learning a few words of the local language will help.
I still suspect the only way to 'win' Vietnam was an invasion of the North. How fast can China respond? What resources did they have near the border? Can the US land troops in the North and block the border? Then sweep south and up from the north at the same time?
What was Goodlett's reaction to the death of Sec Nitze in Vietnam?
'suspected communist sympathizers were executed in the street.' - this is not how one conducts justice. This should give some pause before praising Diem's regime.
Operation Heavyweight - start heavy and see if that cows the opposition into talks/defeat? Might work in some places, but I suspect Vietnam is not one of them.
So censorship of the media - not a good thing, but one required for 'controlling the message' - I suspect govts. will learn this well for future conflicts. Though I be the press with get lots of 'scoops' from behind the lines in Vietnam.
A heavy code of conduct for soldiers on the ground will make a big difference to the locals I suspect. Learning a few words of the local language will help.
I still suspect the only way to 'win' Vietnam was an invasion of the North. How fast can China respond? What resources did they have near the border? Can the US land troops in the North and block the border? Then sweep south and up from the north at the same time?
What constitutes a "win" in Vietnam, IMO, is relative. In this case, the Kennedy administration's goal is a stable, secure South Vietnam sympathetic to the west.
An invasion of the North by ground troops is not on the cards as far as JFK is concerned.
Any effort to block North Vietnamese troops will be related to the Ho Chi Mihn Trail which goes through Laos.
There is some concern however, among members of the NSC that a ground war in Laos could see Red China respond with force.
marktaha
Banned
Supreme Court outlawed gerrymandering in Baker v. Carr. Filibuster a double edged sword useful to stop.governments going too far.