Situation in Europe and East Asia in 1956, at the occupation of the Axis nations.
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Situation in Europe and East Asia in 1956, at the occupation of the Axis nations.
Could someone link me a workshop or something for mapmaking so I can get some good input and ideas on this? Thank you!
Great, this is the THIRD Earth we've blessed the oceans of to use as Holy Water.
Quantum Immortal
Banned
Wh-what did you do to Iceland
And damn, only one connection between North Pole water/ice and the rest of the hydrosphere!
I don't know how much you'll get in terms of feedback/input but there is the WIP Map Thread: https://alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wip-map-thread.418282/page-247
As for the map, it would be interesting to see a more laissez-faire expansion from the Song, making more economic puppets with smaller concessions as opposed to outright conquests and colonization, along the lines of how Europeans dealt with China during the 19th century and into the 20th. Possibly even Song-based EIC style trade companies taking over as de facto independent states. Food for thought, I'm liking the borders so far btw!
Thank you alot! This is exactly what ive been looking for and I appreciate your input
This was a map of an alternate Scramble For Africa with a Cairo to Cape Colony that I made when I first got into mapping, redone onto a larger image and a template on this thread, I'm pretty sure I just read a few books about Africa and made this. Answers to questions may be limited as even I'm not sure what's going on in some parts.
Well, that baby Turkey is def a good start! The Balkans look decent. I mean in terms of Asia, look at OTL how industrialization occurred, and how they'd be different if the Song were doing things. How would people change their behavior to produce, distribute, and use the products made in the Song Empire, both within China's borders, in China's periphery and the broader world.
I switched their coasts so the former Californian one would sort of fit into the African one
This is an idea I've toyed with too, so I look forward to seeing what you do with it! One thing to consider is at what technological stage the Old World discovers the New--and who discovers it. Does China run into at when they already have locomotives and telegraphs? Or what if their science is advanced enough to make the impact of Old World diseases less catastrophic? Does a European or African power find it instead--and what does China do about that? Also, New World plant species have been pretty important in modern history--not only food crops, but also rubber, which is critical for the last century of industrial development.
Random ideas to take or leave: Subdued Mongols as alt-Cossacks, the cutting edge of the empire. SE Asians, due to high rates of genetic malaria resistance, settling equatorial regions as Europe never could, or filling the unhappy role of Africans in our own history. Physics too far behind engineering to understand climate change when it hits, or to invent the atom bomb at the equivalent point in military development. China not becoming expansionist (why should it?), leading to a multi-polar world with several concurrent but unique paths of industrial development in different regions.
For china, here's what i've been working with. Premise is that even with the early industrialist revolution, the Song government remains incompetent in military affairs, resulting in Later Jin to overtake in the North. Due to an absence of Genghis Khan to unify the Mongols, there is no agreement between Southern Song and Mongolia to defeat the Later jin, and as a result a status quo would exist for until the demise of the Jin at the hands of its own people. Instead of migrating back to their natural lands, the prolonged establishment and sinification would result in effective new ideologies of chinese and jurchen government, resulting in its inevitable demise and eternal warring period. Chinese Industrialism would occur with the organization of more laissez-faire principles within the economic stronghold of china, resulting in competition and experimentation in new fields of the steel manufacturing buisness, resulting in the discovery of the water frame and steel manufacturing factories, resulting in this world's premise of industrialization being extremely different to britian's. Song is currently at a steampower/waterpower age, and the first railroads have been built.
In the Song, it has effectively risen to 1820s-1830s industrialism due to an absence of a financially stable source of American/External materials like rubber and oil and their basically undiscovered usage. Laissez-faire economics took over the Song economy thanks to the relentlessness and incompetence of later dynasties being able to manage the already ruthless new founded industrial enterprises. Corporates overtaking coastal cities and began expeditions towards the east indies for trade, eventually even setting up mining communities and colonies in the south. These companies practically control the Song's economy, even to points similar to the opium crisis between China and Britian.
Mongolians, Jianzhou Jurchens, Khitans etc. have largely benefited from industrialization in China. The intermediate export of these businesses have transformed large parts of Manchuria into financial success, coming from gold and iron mines which would result in secularized society in the north and even in Mongolia instead of grazing peoples. Basically, due to Chinese industrialization, these tribes have not only surpassed being tribes but have become located kingdoms and have established enterprise capitals for these companies. Despite this, Japan's extreme isolation, with the exception of multiple company outskirts across the coast, largely remains the same, whereas directly associated regions would be more or less in the middle 1500s.
I plan on having the 'Industrial route' passing towards Arabia by China via the silk road and corporate/enterprise entities through maritime trade. The already continous and present Islamic Golden Age (no genghis) would result in further rapidization of Islamic thought to be comparable to the enlightenment ages of Europe, basically forming them into some industrialist societies and, for the major part, complexes similar to the 1650s and 1700s. The industrial philosophy would later travel to Europe thanks to the reconquista and the successful crusade against the Empire of Rum in Anatolia, resulting in Europe's placement as a financial center for literally everybody.
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This is a very basic sort of analogue idea I had in my head for a while now. Think of it as an alt-American Civil War where the North secedes instead of the South creating a sort of "Consecrated States of America" if you will. They take 11 free states just as the secessionists took 11 slave states with them. This is the situation as of 1861. The situation here is much more even than in the Civil War of OTL. This TTL Union (comparing it to the Confederate States of OTL) is much stronger in terms of industrial and resource capability due to it being basically a massively enlarged version of it as well as the total population of the Union being around 17.7 million against the Consecrated States's 13.7 million.
And here is the aftermath of the war in 1864. My basic thinking was that The Consecrated States by virtue of their secession being in large part opposing slavery would be a more palatable nation for the UK to support secession wise and this would ultimately result in them intervening in the civil war on their behalf causing a quick end to the war and "negotiations" to begin. However, the Union has still managed to wrest Michigan and Ohio from the Consecrated States and in the Peace managed to carve out half of Pennsylvania, primarily the western portion and naming the new state as "Westsylvania"(largely an analogue to Virginia/West Virginia). The British did not protest this as it would weaken the Consecrated States enough for them to be more reliable of a British dependency.
As for the future of this America, While the South now has the grip on the nation's zeitgeist rather than New England and the Mid-Atlantic, I don't think this would cause America to go full-Decades of Darkness . For one thing this rump US still has a sizable contingent of free states(11) to slave states(15). That being said the center of gravity certainly has shifted southwards with the only counterbalance being the Midwest and West.
And here is the aftermath of the war in 1864. My basic thinking was that The Consecrated States by virtue of their secession being in large part opposing slavery would be a more palatable nation for the UK to support secession wise and this would ultimately result in them intervening in the civil war on their behalf causing a quick end to the war and "negotiations" to begin. However, the Union has still managed to wrest Michigan and Ohio from the Consecrated States and in the Peace managed to carve out half of Pennsylvania, primarily the western portion and naming the new state as "Westsylvania"(largely an analogue to Virginia/West Virginia). The British did not protest this as it would weaken the Consecrated States enough for them to be more reliable of a British dependency.
As for the future of this America, While the South now has the grip on the nation's zeitgeist rather than New England and the Mid-Atlantic, I don't think this would cause America to go full-Decades of Darkness . For one thing this rump US still has a sizable contingent of free states(11) to slave states(15). That being said the center of gravity certainly has shifted southwards with the only counterbalance being the Midwest and West.
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How will the US deal with losing a war? Will they play nicer with Britain or vow revenge?
Also, how did this happen? What drove the Consecrated States out of the Union?
I like this scenario; I hope to see more.
Crosspost from over at the MOTF thread
During the second half of the 6th century, there where several ambitious emperors in the west declaring their intent to recover the lost territories in the east. Those ambitions where partly realized with the reclamation of Egypt and the Middle East from the Ostrogoths, Asia Minor from the Vandals and Thrace from the Visigoths, making the Mediterranean a Roman Lake once again. Holding on to these territories however proved to be a challenge with the rump Visigoth and Ostrogothic states as well as the Sassanids causing problems in the East and putting a strain on the on the Empire's limited resources. This forced the imperial government to devolve power and establish the Vicariates to deal with the constantly evolving situation at the new frontiers in the east.
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I've had this scenario in my head for a while, so I decided to just go with it. The main idea behind this map is that the Eastern and Western Roman Empire switch fates, eventually leading to a Justinian-esque figure trying to restore the old Imperial Borders.
if I can add some constructive disorder to this arrangement you have: Unlike the British Industrial Revolution, the folks made impoverished and immiserated in the process of a laissez faire industrial developmental model would either leave to the hills beyond borders to avoid the strains of industrial living, or stick around and agitate, so I'd imagine there's some instability in Song China. As China's market grows, you would also see chaos across the Silk Road as demand for goods increase, and volumes of trade increase: It would actually be very interesting to see railroads develop as a means of getting goods across Central Asia faster. On that note, the fortunes of folks on China's peripheries ranges from 'fucked' to 'not yet fucked': Either they are useful in gathering the resources to fuel the market, or China subsidizes a competitor group who will. Slavery in Southeast Asia would probably increase as a knock-on effect as well as low level constant warfare in the neighboring regions of Zomia. Depending on how China does it, the increasing efficiency of their direct trade links would likely siphon resources from elsewhere, particularly the Indian Ocean routes, resulting in instability there.
I'm liking your thoughts so far
Very good map. Do i understand it correctly that the Visigoths, Ostrogoths and Vandals become some sort of foederati after their defeat?
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