The Revenge of the Crown : An Alternate 1812 and Beyond.

Who should become the first president of new england?

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HonestAbe1809

Rivercat893 said:
I hope the creator of this timeline can really take some of our feedback into consideration. Calhoun can't be President any longer and Jackson is in a very terrible position. Hell, I would have had the Federal States win the Civil War and serve as the end of the USA.
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Even if Calhoun manages to keep America limping along to his OTL death in 1850 it'd collapse soon afterward. Especially since his clear successor Andrew Jackson would've been dead for five years at this point.

Though now I'm worried that our feedback might discourage @Sārthākā from writing more.
Rivercat893 said:
I see no room for any incarnation of the United States to even remotely exist. It would have better for the Northern states to successfully secede and a separate Southern nation to exist.
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I still can't understand how the American government won with serious money troubles during the civil war.
 

Analytical Engine

HonestAbe1809 said:
I still can't understand how the American government won with serious money troubles during the civil war.
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Didn't it basically just print money and commit mass accounting fraud, though?

The US is going to have some serious financial issues later. Good luck borrowing money on the international markets when that comes to light.
 

HonestAbe1809

Noblesse Oblige said:
Like I said, let's see what he means and stop saying that America should've collapsed into anarchy before the Civil War was done.
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I never said that America would've collapsed before the Civil War was done. I was said that America would collapse following "President" Calhoun's death since he and his cult of personality seem to be the keystone of the government.
 
Herr Frage

Herr Frage

Honestly I find the idea the USA will cease to exist ITTL unlikely.

The American identity was already pretty strong by 1812. Even ITTL New England broke away based on simmering resentment and the British terror/proBritish outlook. Keep in mind New York ITTL stayed loyal to the Union during 1812 and it took a break along mostly the Free State-Slave State Divide to cause the next war. While I could see an FSA resurgence, I really don't see why the South would break up, or that the former FSA would not be a united polity claiming an 'American' legitimacy.

As for neighbors carving them up, that's rather limited. New England at most would take more former FSA territory, and even New York only joined them because it was seen as the lesser evil. And New England is already investing in colonialism so their time and money is not going to solely in the region. Mishigama reclaiming further lands in the Midewest is less likely every year as that territory becomes more settled and populous. Canada/Britain at most might take the new Northwest, and frankly with Britain's Asian and Pacific ventures kicking off there's going to be less interest in taking disputed territory in North America. Louisiana will not be interested in taking a bunch of Anglophone land, save for their Northern border their focus will likely be on developing/securing their western territories. And Spain, well the Florida expedition was likely their last gasp of expansion in North America with them having more promising prospects elsewhere.

As for the African-American population, sadly short of some border buffer state somewhere I don't see them being able to seize control, or anyone being very invested in letting them do so. The recent revolt shows how hard actually overthrowing the system would be.

So in short I see no reason outside the former FSA that Americans would see breaking up 'their' country in their interest. And I don't see the neighboring powers having the drive to carry out such a task. If anything I expect the South will be more united than ever after this war with State identity taking a big hit with them having endured loss and victory in this recent war.

My guess is that Calhoun will die earlier than OTL with Jackson becoming Dictator, who will end up moderating some of Calhoun's policies. Jackson's reign marks the height of the Post Civil War order, perhaps even taking advantage of a general European war letting him retake West Florida or Northern Missouri or something. But even successes are in the end too expensive in the doing to be worth it and the planters continued stranglehold ensures any gains are not to the benefit of the common American despite the nationalist propaganda. All leading to a revolution Post Jackson that sees a New American Order come to power.
 
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HonestAbe1809

At the very least the collapse of the Calhoun/Jackson regime will not be pretty. And we can all agree that people in TTL would laugh at the idea of the United States of America being a global superpower.
 

SilentSpaniard

Hmm... Remember the name of one of TTL historical sources, back then in Chapter 7:
Sārthākā said:
The Short Life of the Republic 1783-1827, Osprey Publishing, 1998.
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It is happening.

We have this in the last chapter:
Sārthākā said:
Andrew Jackson, the future neo-dictator of America.
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For some reason, now I'm thinking in portals in Doctor Francia, the isolationist dictator of Paraguay.

Maybe the United States will go down a somewhat similar route in TTL... But with quite more slavery.

And why let skin color be a limit?

Another "advantage" of isolationism: no one can hear the screams of all the people being enslaved.
 

Noblesse Oblige

SilentSpaniard said:
For some reason, now I'm thinking in portals in Doctor Francia, the isolationist dictator of Paraguay.

Maybe the United States will go down a somewhat similar route in TTL... But with quite more slavery.

And why let skin color be a limit?

Another "advantage" of isolationism: no one can hear the screams of all the people being enslaved.
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That's some TNO-levels of grim right there man...
 
Chapter 25: The Concert of the Earth.
  • Index
    • Sarthak

    Sarthak

    Chapter 25: The Concert of the Earth.

    ***

    “The Rebellion of the Daimyos is a conflict that started in April, 1827, by the Tokugawa loyalists, with the aid of the Aizu and Takamatsu Domains to restore the power of the Shogun, and stop the rise of British influence in the country. Emperor Ninko had been extremely welcoming to the British and by extension, other Europeans as well, hoping to use them to get rid of the Shogunate and restore power to the Emperor after so long.

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    Emperor Ninko of Japan.     ​

    The war was founded in dissatisfaction among many nobles, and young samurai with the Shogunate’s handling of foreigners following the opening of Japan. Increasing foreign influence from Britain, as well as France, and Austria led to a decline that was similar to other Asian countries of the time as well. An alliance of western samurai, particularly in the domains of Choshu, Satsuma and Tosa and court officials allied with Emperor Ninko, influencing him in the court of Edo. Tokugawa Ienari, the sitting Shogun, realizing the futility of his situation, abdicated the political power to the Emperor. Ienari had hoped that by doing so, the House of Tokugawa would still be preserved and able to participate the future government.

    Emperor Ninko was loathe to share power with Tokugawa Ienari, however recognizing Ienari’s own administrative capabilities and the fact that the Tokugawa was still a powerful fief in their own right, he accepted Ienari’s hope, and instead the Shogunate was kept. In the Agreement of Edo, the Emperor remained Head of State, the Shogun became the Head of Military Affairs of the Nation, whilst the government was shared between them, with the head of government being a Shusho, or prime minister like Britain.

    However this move led to traditionalists in Japan, react badly. They were already agitated by the degrading power of the Daimyos, and with the Shogunate being radically altered they demanded that the Japanese Empire returned back to the pre-1825 situation by hook or by crook. The rebellious domains then banded behind Tokugawa Ienari’s son, Tokugawa Ieyoshi, and Tokugawa Keinosuke to regain the pre-1825 situation, and went into open rebellion led by Matsudaira Katataka from the Aizu Domain and Matsudaira Yorihiro from the Takamatsu Domain. Matsudaira Sadakazu from the Kuwana Domain, Sakai Tadakata from the Shonai Domain and Hayashi Tadafusa of the Jozai Domain as well as Matsudaira Sadakuni of the Iyo-Matsuyama Domain rose up in revolt against the government in Edo, sparking the rebellion of the Daimyos.

    1608357052876.png

    an illustration of daimyo troops in japan in 1827    ​

    With the House of Tokugawa divided between Ienari’s supporters and Ieyoshi’s supporters, the Emperor and Ienari began mobilizing the new Imperial Army of Nihon or the IAN which was modelled with the British Army in mind. The Imperial Army of Nihon numbered somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 during this time, and the feudal levies of Tokugawa Ienari also answered his called, raising some 40,000 men to fight against the rebellion from these many daimyos.” The Rebellion of the Daimyos: The History of Modern Nihon, University of Ezo, 2002

    “The Slavery Abolishment Act 1827 abolished slavery in parts of the British Empire. This act of parliament of the United Kingdom expanded the jurisdiction of the Slave Trade Act of 1807 and made the purchase or ownership of slaves illegal within the British Empire, with the exception of the British East India company, though later on it would extend to the East India Company as well.

    The act had its third hearing from Prime Minister Lord Landsdowne in the House of Commons on the 6th of January, 1827. It received royal assent a month later on the 8th of February, and the act would come into force on the 1st of November, 1827. In practical terms, however, only slaves below the age of six were freed in the colonies. Former slaves over the age of six were designated as Apprentices, and their servitude was abolished in a slow manner with the last Apprentice groups being abolished in 1835. The act provided compensation payment to slave owners. The amount of money used to pay the slave owners was a sum of around twenty-two million pounds sterling. Half of the money went to slave owning families in the Caribbean and Africa, whilst the other half went to absentee owners living in Britain.

    The act is seen as the final death knell for slavery within the British Empire, and soon enough british contracted privateers and ships would start raiding the slave trade routes, playing an important role in the death of the slave trade routes in the Atlantic ocean as well as the Indian Ocean.” A History of Slavery: University of Benin, 1938.

    “Joseph Smith Junior was a prominent New English politician, and founder of the New English Christian Democratic Party or the CDP. When he was 24, he would publish a book called ‘The parallels between governance, and Christian Democracy, as well as our Christian Values’. He would become extremely well liked in New England, eventually becoming its longest serving Prime Minister, and would leave behind a massive mark in the nation.

    1608357121675.png

    Joseph Smith Junior.     ​

    Smith was born in December, 23, 1805 in Vermont, back then under the control of the United States of America to Lucy Muck Smith and her husband Joseph Smith Senior, a merchant and farmer. He was one of 11 children. At age 5 to 7, he became witness to the British invasion of New England as a part of the War of 1812 and suffered a crippling bone infection after the splinters of an artillery shell hit him during the British occupation of Vermont. After receiving surgery he would have to wear clutches for three years. After an ill-fated business venture, and three successive years of crops failures culminating in 1816, the year without a summer, the Smith family left Vermont and moved to Boston, taking a mortgage for a house in the outskirts of the city.

    1608357172982.png

    Smith was a Methodist    ​

    North America was hotbed of religious enthusiasm during the Second Great Awakening. Between 1817 and 1825, there were several meetings and revivals of old Christian ideas in New England’s rural population. Smith’s parents disagreed about religion, but the family was caught up in its enthusiasm. Smith became interested in religion during this time, and at the age of 12 in 1817 he converted to Methodism branch of Protestantism. Methodism focuses on sanctification and the effect of faith on the character of a sanctification and Christian. Methodism emphasized charity, and support for the sick, poor and the afflicted through works of mercy. These ideals collectively known as the Social Gospel were put into practice through the establishment of hospitals, orphanages, soup kitchens and schools to follow Christ’s command and spread the good news and serve the people. Smith quickly became involved the younger branch of the Methodism present in Boston back then and became engaged in the religious folk traditions of the Methodist church in the area.

    During that time, as politics became an important profession in New England, for the new nation, his father, Joseph Smith Senior prodded his son to join one of the political positions being offered to youths, as the money was quite considerable. Smith was at first adverse to the idea, and not exactly a New English nationalist, however as his family’s monetary situation deteriorated, he agreed, and in 1823, he joined one of the lower youth wings in the New English administration, and got a job as a speaker and orator in the many houses of the New English government. As a speaker, he was most noted for advocating for the use of Christian morals in government and abiding by Christian teachings. He was said to be a very good speaker, enrapturing all that heard him speaking. In 1825, when the American Civil War began, he had managed to become a medium-level administrator being sent to Vermont as a part of his duties. During the American Civil War, he led the re-settlement of American refugees from the war in Vermont, and throughout, the re-settlement seems to have affected the man’s psyche, as he soon became a hard-line abolitionist, calling slavery, against all Christian denominations and His teachings.

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    Smith surveying the 5th Vermont Infantry Regiment before the New English intervention in America.     ​

    In the 1826 New English General elections, he stood up vying for the position of Member of Parliament as an independent from his county, and managed to win the position, entering the New English commons as an independent. He famously supported the New English excursion and intervention in the American Civil War which led to the New English annexation of New York. In 1827, he officially established the New England Christian Democratic Party or the NECDP in Boston. Slowly, enough the party would slowly become a key competitor to both the Federalists and Tories both, becoming the third party of New England.” Joseph Smith: A Biography, University of Hartford, 1964.

    “Tsar Nicholas I of Russia had been a good friend of Louis Philippe I of Louisiana, and as such when news arrived of a successful Louisianan state under his good friend, Tsar Nicholas I was pretty happy to start investing into the country. Russia would have a lasting impact on the nation of Louisiana. Much of Louisiana’s early architects, engineers, and administrators, were sent from Russia to Louisiana to ease the country from their transition into a full country, and trade negotiations between the two countries also made relations extremely good between the two countries.

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    (1) Louis, Duke of St. Louis, and future Louis II of Louisiana. (2) Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia, the future queen-consort of Louisiana.     ​

    It was also soon negotiated between the two nations, that Tsar Nicholas I’s daughter, Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia would marry Louis Philippe’s second in line to the throne, Louis, the former Duke of Nemours, now the Duke of St. Louis. The marriage would take place in New Orleans in 1828, starting several generations of good marital and diplomatic relations between the Kingdom of Louisiana and the Empire of Russia. It would also be interesting to note, the Russians would eventually take part in American-Louisianan Conflicts on the side of Louisiana, though not as directly as France had done in 1825.” A History of Russo-Louisianan Relations.

    “Mexico in 1827 was at the cusp of something new. For years by this point, Prime Minister Pedro Velez and the Mexican government, in conjunction with Emperor Jose I had been planning and setting out goals for Mexico’s long term economic future. Velez’s Minister of Finance and the Economy, Rafael Perez Maldonado, an Irish-Mexican, also called the Father of Mexican Economics, wrote the 1827 Mexican Plan consisting of the following points:-

    • The creation of a proper military budget to exercise economic propriety in the military.
    • The allocation of ‘industrial estates’ in all major cities of the Mexican Empire, in which industries would be established by the government, and then sold or leased to private ownership to stimulate the economy.
    • The establishment of around 70 new shipbuilding firms in the coastal regions of Mexico (both Pacific and Caribbean) to improve the economy of the nation, and increase transport ease between Central Mexico and Tejas as well as the Californias.
    • Suppress unnecessary governmental agencies, taking too much money for little return.
    • The creation of a National Economics Bureau to create a proper supervisory body for the economy of the nation.
    • The advocacy of a protectionist government to develop the economy and industrial base of the country, as well as advocacy for an interventionist government in the economy to make sure that the economy is run smoothly.
    This plan was of course, a sound one, and also accommodated the nobles of Mexico, by not touching their lands and territories, and also accommodated the liberals, who wished for more industrialization of the country. Jose I gave his royal assent on the 2nd of June, 1827 and the plan went into action soon enough.

    1608357518941.png
    1608357552255.png

    (1) Jacques MacDonald (2) Jean-Baptiste Jourdan    ​

    Speaking about Jose I, the man was a Bonaparte, through and through, and former Bonapartists from Spain was starting to trickle into Mexico as well. The most major example of whom was Jacques MacDonald, the famed Highlander Marshal of Napoleon and Marshal Jean Baptiste Jourdan. MacDonald soon joined the Conservative Party, though he was known for a being conservative and became a deputy from the province of Yucatan, where he settled down in. Jourdan settled down in Mexico City itself, and alongside MacDonald, soon established the ‘Imperial Mexican Military Academy’ with the permission of Jose I and became the first teachers to a new generation of Mexican officers and NCOs hoping to join the Imperial Mexican Army. Their strict professionalism and ideas would soon lay the foundations of what many call the ‘Mexican Professionalism’ in the Mexican military.” A History of Mexico, University of Louisiana, 1987.

    1608357591091.png

    The Imperial Mexican Military Academy in Mexico City in 1829.     ​

    ***
     
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    • Sarthak

    Sarthak

    Rivercat893 said:
    The United States is quickly becoming a cotton republic because they lost the War of 1812 and the Civil War. I can't even see the country last any longer as I noted previously. The best comparison would be Gran Colombia from 1819-1831 which broke up into 4-5 countries due to internal conflict over centralization and I do think the *USA would follow a similar route here.
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    what does that have anything to do with the chapter?
     

    HARRY

    Economically the remaining United States is not going to do well as their main exports of cotton not only relies on slave labour which is cut off from by the British, slaves have several options to where to escape to pursued and also growing cotton will deplete the soil in OTL cotton plantations spread west and into Texas because of this before crop rotation with legumes (peanuts) became the normal. There is no room to move west now so cotton production will start to reduce, also US cotton will probable be boycotted by British, French & possible other European countries markets because of slavery with them sourcing from Louisiana, Mexico, Egypt & India.
     
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