Map Thread XX

[Basileus_Komnenos]

What is Putinist-Tsarist Russia like? Any major differences, aside from being an authoritarian monarchy born from a civil war instead of an authoritarian republic born from a largely bloodless collapse, between it and the Russian Federation IOTL?

It has some parallels to Francoist Spain in some ways, but it’s also different. In Eastern Europe monarchism and Russian Orthodoxy have experienced a massive revival in reaction to the collapse of the Soviet system. It’s definitely a Constitutional Monarchy, but more akin to the 1905 Empire under Stolypin. The Vozhd here essentially established a more authoritarian regime with the monarchy more a figurehead for legitimacy. Though the Parliament functions as a powerless institutions so that there’s a means of controlled opposition. It also provides the illusion of popular support behind the government.

Russia here has a more tense relations with its neighbors like Poland and Ukraine. Though here Russia is a bit bigger as it includes Kazakhstan and Belarus.

So while it wouldn’t be a Cold War 2.0, the world would instead be more of a multipolar world after the fall of the USSR.

I wonder if the restored Tsar could play a role similar to the king in Spain, backing a transition to democracy post-Putin? (Of course, we are talking Romanovs here... )

Not so sure. The Romanovs would not really want to become figurehead monarchs to what’s essentially a Crowned Republic like in the UK or Spain. Though I could see the next generation of royals getting sick of Putin and engineering a popular “self-coup” against him. I could see them look to Greece as an example of a successful moderate monarchist nation.

 

[Whiteshore]

It has some parallels to Francoist Spain in some ways, but it’s also different. In Eastern Europe monarchism and Russian Orthodoxy have experienced a massive revival in reaction to the collapse of the Soviet system. It’s definitely a Constitutional Monarchy, but more akin to the 1905 Empire under Stolypin. The Vozhd here essentially established a more authoritarian regime with the monarchy more a figurehead for legitimacy. Though the Parliament functions as a powerless institutions so that there’s a means of controlled opposition. It also provides the illusion of popular support behind the government.

So, it's not that different from Putin's Russia IOTL except Putin is the Prime Minister and not the President?

 

[Noravea]

Amazing work!

You mention Greenport still exists, but where it would be in real life is where you placed Fair Meadows. Where would Greenport be in the Fair Meadows universe?

Yes. You see on the map the area directly south of Van Hoebeek in the white areas? That is Greenport. In our reality Greenport is where Fairhaven was, but I decided to ultimately include both but move Greenport to the west. The only area truly displaced is Orient Point and Oyster Ponds, which were replaced with Ketansett.

And thank you!

 

[B_Munro]

Not so sure. The Romanovs would not really want to become figurehead monarchs to what’s essentially a Crowned Republic like in the UK or Spain.

If they're wanting actual authority in a Putin-dominated state, they're going to be disappointed. Conflict may not await the second generation of royals (and Putin will have the problem he can't just poison the royals when they bug him )

 

[FancyHat]

Very nice! But what are Skotland's objectives in Pretan, that they'd risk attacking an ally of Sole Superpower China, a country that due to geography almost certainly has a considerably larger population (if not necessarily the nearly 10 to 1 ratio of OTL 2020)?

Really, Skotland's ruling military junta isn't really sure what its objectives in the Absolutely Inevitable War with Pretan are: they range from the relatively sensible annexation of *Wexford and destruction of Pretaneyc fortifications on the *Irish Sea coast to the frankly ludicrous total dismantling of the Pretaneyc state, complete with a Skotić conquest of most of OTL Scotland, Cumbria, and Wales (an idea that may have actually started out as Pretaneyc propaganda). As far as provoking Cina goes, though, Skotland's military planners aren't overconfident enough to think they could defeat Cina themselves but they are overconfident enough to think they can win The War fast enough that it won't matter somehow (again, opinion is divided: maybe Cina just wouldn't care at all, or they'd decide that Skotland would actually be a better ally since clearly they're better than a bunch of Celts, or maybe their worldsystem will collapse next week so Skotland can do whatever they want).

The Greeks are rather fragmented - is ethnic nationalist state-building less of a thing in this TL, at least until recently (which seems to be what's going on in *Scandinavia), or has Greek union been actively discouraged by their neighbors? (Maybe a bit from column A, a bit from column B?)

You hit the nail on the head here. For one, what we'd understand as modern nationalism is both substantially weaker and viewed in a more negative light ITTL (same goes for racism, incidentally; xenophobia is obviously still around but race as a concept hasn't been nearly as universally accepted, let alone "scientific" theories of racial superiority). For another, the Asian Hellenic states have long been subject to division by their Armenian overlords (who, after all, had and have a lot of Hellenes within their borders and didn't want them getting any ideas) to the point that they've developed decently distinct identities by the present day. As far as the European Hellenes go, Hellada's a federation, Arveria isn't Hellenic anyway (they're kind of Albanians, kind of), and Nikopolis and Crete have managed well enough on their own, thanks.

How does Europe compare with China in terms of economic/technological development?

Pretty equivalent; historically Eurasia has been more consistently interlinked than IOTL, which made for more consistent development. Cina's Moon base is bigger and better than anyone else's, and they were the ones who led the human Mars/Venus flyby mission a few years back, but Europeans tend to chalk that up to Cina showing off more than anything else.

 

[B_Munro]

Really, Skotland's ruling military junta isn't really sure what its objectives in the Absolutely Inevitable War with Pretan are

are overconfident enough to think they can win The War fast enough that it won't matter

or maybe their worldsystem will collapse next week so Skotland can do whatever they want

Idiots. Gotcha.

 

[Remitonov]

-Australasian separatists-

Vile, but easily ratified...

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

View attachment 582377
World map in 1654 of my timeline, The Death of Ferdinand. The catholic monarchs don't rise, france scoops up Columbus and settle the south, eventually finding and conquering Mexico. Britain settles the northeast and Colombia, and admittedly I'm being very nice to Denmark

I started your timeline and I am very interested in your work. Would you like me to make a map of your universe in Worlda format?

 

[Bob Hope]

Thanks!

You're welcome, by the way, welcome to AH.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

A Cold War Divided Greece

A map depicting an alternate end to the Greek Civil War.​

Basically here in ttl, the Communists and left-leaning Republicans manage to attain victory on the mainland in the Greek Civil War that began in 1946. With most of the mainland falling to Communist Control, the Royal family and the Hellenic government fled to Crete where they form a government in exile. The unexpected fall of Greece to the Red Tide of Communism causes panic throughout Europe as the USSR now has access to the warm water Mediterranean ports through a friendly Greece. The exiled Kingdom of Greece now finds itself a propped up by the UK, France, and the US seeking to contain Soviet influence. In this timeline the Cold War is a bit more heated than otl, and the rump Kingdom of Greece ends up as a sort of Taiwan to the People's Republic of Greece. Eventually as the Communist government grows unpopular the people begin agitating for independence and an end to the Communist regime especially as the Orthodox Church is suppressed, and living standards decline in comparison to the more prosperous capitalist states. This resentment and tension finally boils over leading to the Greek Revolution of the 1980's with the people rising up against the tyrannical dictatorship as the Royalist armies are welcomed into Greece. The Revolution proved to be the first nail in the coffin for Soviet Empire as it caused a domino effect with nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, and Poland soon having their own Revolutions. This eventually leads to the downfall of the Soviet Union culminating in the disastrous Second Russian Civil War of 1991 that led to the rise of the Vozhd Putin who serves as regent for the newly restored Romanovs.

Greece here develops into a Constitutional Monarchy here in ttl, though unlike say the UK, Belgium, or Spain, the monarchy has more executive powers here as a result of Greece being more of a de-facto Royalist dictatorship due to the circumstances surrounding the aftermath of the civil war. Though the government here is far more moderate and has begun to liberalize as the years pass. Greece after the Revolution becomes a robust economic power within Europe after the war, developing a major shipping industry and experiencing a massive economic boom following an influx of foreign investment.

What do you guys think of this map and the little mini-timeline I made?

Unbelievable! I love it so much!
Moreover you found a solution on the contours too dark in black. Doing it in the same color but darker makes the borders stand out (maybe extend it to the land border?).

 

[Aztekk]

M A P

of the

I N D I A N
S U B C O N T I N E N T

MOHANDAS K. GANDHI
(1869 - 1953)
General Secretary of the People's Revolutionary Party of India

SUBHAS CHANDRA BOSE
(1897 - 1964)
Great Mahatma of Bharat

MUHAMMAD I
(1876 - 1948)
Sultan of Islamistan

MOHAMMED ZAHIR SHAH
(1914 - )
King of Afghanistan

S. J. V. CHELVANAYAKAM
(1898 - 1977)
President of Eelam

H. S. SUHRAWARDY
(1892 - 1963)
President of Bengal

PALDEN THONDUP NAMGYAL
(1923 - 1982)
Chogyal of Sikkim


Continuation:
Assassination of Wilhelm IV
John Lennon
Map of Southeast Asia​

 

[AltoRegnant]

I started your timeline and I am very interested in your work. Would you like me to make a map of your universe in Worlda format?

That would be amazing, thank you!

 

[B_Munro]

Pretty equivalent; historically Eurasia has been more consistently interlinked than IOTL, which made for more consistent development. Cina's Moon base is bigger and better than anyone else's, and they were the ones who led the human Mars/Venus flyby mission a few years back, but Europeans tend to chalk that up to Cina showing off more than anything else.

Of course, as they say, sheer size has special advantages of its own.

One more question: what's the religious situation in Europe?

 

[ItsaMapping]

1972, The Moroccan Crisis: A Proxy war within the Long War


Morocco, previously a Spanish-French Protectorate, inevitably met its first set of demises with the glorious revolution within Spain obliterating the monarchy and ridding fascist elements from the mainland and into Spanish Cameroon and other African colonies. As a result, the growing irridentist, republican and islamic influences from the Cold War between the traditionalist islamists and modern islamists, fell towards collapse via a coalition of the Moroccan Communist Party, National Liberation Front and Army for Free Morocco, while Rif rebels would also launch multiple revolutions and even stabilizes itself as a organized state. Moroccan authority in Mauritania ultimately collapses giving tribes and de-facto existing nations to restart anew, and further position themselves. France, seeing further paranoia from complete riddence from Northern Africa by the Algerian revolution within their lands, launches a occupation of Rabat with their positioned garrison, and a alligned expedition to rid the Moroccan coalition. The latter ultimately becomes a attrition war, similarly to the Vietnam War. European control of Africa is limited as it is, and it is only a matter of time until France finally leaves Africa.

Sorry if the lore doesnt make sense, I got 2 hours of sleep today

 

[CourageousLife]

Of course, as they say, sheer size has special advantages of its own.

One more question: what's the religious situation in Europe?

@FancyHat will probably have a more eloquent answer for you, but I'll take a stab at it from what I know.

Xristianity is still relatively common across Europa, though not in the form as we know it, as the POD in 172 AD occurs before Constantine is born in OTL. There has been some intermingling between Xristianity and the pagan faiths, seen more prominently in states like Travanska-Karjatania and the far western Slavs. Anglo monks actually led the colonization of Angelcynn. Islam doesn't come to exist in this universe, but there are other Islamesque faiths that have developed. The kings of Armenia have historically been Xristian.

 

[B_Munro]

@FancyHat will probably have a more eloquent answer for you, but I'll take a stab at it from what I know.

Xristianity is still relatively common across Europa, though not in the form as we know it, as the POD in 172 AD occurs before Constantine is born in OTL. There has been some intermingling between Xristianity and the pagan faiths, seen more prominently in states like Travanska-Karjatania and the far western Slavs. Anglo monks actually led the colonization of Angelcynn. Islam doesn't come to exist in this universe, but there are other Islamesque faiths that have developed. The kings of Armenia have historically been Xristian.

Interesting: is there a "standard" Christianity like Catholicism or Orthodoxy in the east OTL, or is it mostly local churches? Are the Turks of Bigassia [1] also Xristian?

[1] Can't be bothered to go check on the name

 

[mdc_1957]

M A P

of the

I N D I A N
S U B C O N T I N E N T

Makes me wonder what the backstory behind this is.

 

[FancyHat]

One more question: what's the religious situation in Europe?

Europe west of the Oder and south of the Carpathians is broadly Christian, but with much more variation in doctrine and surviving syncretism the further north you go; there's a lot of surviving pagan communities in rural Pretan and Scandinavia. There's no papacy; bishops are appointed by monarchs/governments. Christian canon ITTL is also somewhat different, most notably featuring the Diatessaron instead of OTL's four separate gospels. The Asian Hellenes, Armenia, and also North Africa are also historically Christian. The exception there is Egypt, locally called Masira, which is narrowly majority Mandayan (cf. OTL Mandaeism) thanks to their conquest by the medieval Syrian Empire, which in turn got it from Iran.

East of the Oder and north of the Carpathians is a different story. The Turkish and Uralic states (save for Samoland, which is Christian-ish thanks to centuries of Svealandic influence) follow an organized sky worship-based religion roughly analogous to OTL Tengri but with substantial differences thanks to different circumstances of formation and an actual formalization in the 1200s. Europe also has its share of religious minorities, from Jews (with a somewhat different history of persecution) to Slavic and Baltic pagan communities in Šaraghur.

 

[Historyman 14]

A Cold War Divided Greece

A map depicting an alternate end to the Greek Civil War.​

Basically here in ttl, the Communists and left-leaning Republicans manage to attain victory on the mainland in the Greek Civil War that began in 1946. With most of the mainland falling to Communist Control, the Royal family and the Hellenic government fled to Crete where they form a government in exile. The unexpected fall of Greece to the Red Tide of Communism causes panic throughout Europe as the USSR now has access to the warm water Mediterranean ports through a friendly Greece. The exiled Kingdom of Greece now finds itself a propped up by the UK, France, and the US seeking to contain Soviet influence. In this timeline the Cold War is a bit more heated than otl, and the rump Kingdom of Greece ends up as a sort of Taiwan to the People's Republic of Greece. Eventually as the Communist government grows unpopular the people begin agitating for independence and an end to the Communist regime especially as the Orthodox Church is suppressed, and living standards decline in comparison to the more prosperous capitalist states. This resentment and tension finally boils over leading to the Greek Revolution of the 1980's with the people rising up against the tyrannical dictatorship as the Royalist armies are welcomed into Greece. The Revolution proved to be the first nail in the coffin for Soviet Empire as it caused a domino effect with nations like Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, and Poland soon having their own Revolutions. This eventually leads to the downfall of the Soviet Union culminating in the disastrous Second Russian Civil War of 1991 that led to the rise of the Vozhd Putin who serves as regent for the newly restored Romanovs.

Greece here develops into a Constitutional Monarchy here in ttl, though unlike say the UK, Belgium, or Spain, the monarchy has more executive powers here as a result of Greece being more of a de-facto Royalist dictatorship due to the circumstances surrounding the aftermath of the civil war. Though the government here is far more moderate and has begun to liberalize as the years pass. Greece after the Revolution becomes a robust economic power within Europe after the war, developing a major shipping industry and experiencing a massive economic boom following an influx of foreign investment.

What do you guys think of this map and the little mini-timeline I made?

This is fun, and cool. I myself never thought the Communists could actually win given even Stalin wash his hands of them, and even then, Communist!Greece would be more allied to Yugoslavia and Tito than to the USSR. But it still offers an interesting Cold War given the Kingdom of Greece borders Red!Greece with many of the islands and Euboea. And making both Turkey and Italy that much more important in the Cold War.

No idea about the whole Second Russian Civil War other than it the perfect 'Screw you' to Lenin and Stalin, and the whole point of the Soviet Union that ends and see the return of the Romanovs.

I do enjoy this stronger Greece and all that compare to OTL.

 

[Aztekk]

Makes me wonder what the backstory behind this is.

One day you'll know