AHC: USA controls all of the Americas

[NAF]

So aside from the classic (if done to death) Rome-wank, the idea of a United States spanning across all of the Americas is easily one of my all-time favorite AH concepts. I find it fascinating to ponder how such a state would come into being, and how it would influence the world around it.

Your challenge is as follows: With a POD of anywhere from the dawn of time to 1900, the US (or an entity similar to the US, with my main stipulation that it be initially English-speaking) must have complete ownership of the entirety of both North and South America by the modern day. The US must be democratic in nature, with all peoples and states having equal representation in the government (so no "fascist America goes on a conquering spree").

With a POD of literally whenever, is this even remotely possible? And if it is, how would such a state even function? I imagine that the government would work far differently than the government of OTL US. The US would undoubtedly have to solve its issues with racial and religious intolerance for this to work.

I truly hope that there is a way for such a state to come into being without turning into a dystopic nightmare. I absolutely love the idea of a multicultural pan-American hyperpower serving as a shining beacon of liberty and democracy.

 

[Matteo]

So aside from the classic (if done to death) Rome-wank, the idea of a United States spanning across all of the Americas is easily one of my all-time favorite AH concepts. I find it fascinating to ponder how such a state would come into being, and how it would influence the world around it.

Your challenge is as follows: With a POD of anywhere from the dawn of time to 1900, the US (or an entity similar to the US, with my main stipulation that it be initially English-speaking) must have complete ownership of the entirety of both North and South America by the modern day. The US must be democratic in nature, with all peoples and states having equal representation in the government (so no "fascist America goes on a conquering spree").

With a POD of literally whenever, is this even remotely possible? And if it is, how would such a state even function? I imagine that the government would work far differently than the government of OTL US. The US would undoubtedly have to solve its issues with racial and religious intolerance for this to work.

I truly hope that there is a way for such a state to come into being without turning into a dystopic nightmare. I absolutely love the idea of a multicultural pan-American hyperpower serving as a shining beacon of liberty and democracy.

If you want it to be English speaking, gigantic genocide is the only not ASBish way to do it.

Do you realize that until the 1930´s, native born Spanish speaking Amerindian Californians were expelled from California to Mexico because they were supposed to be Mexicans ?

Most people in the US did not want to live with the amerindians, with the Spanish or Portuguese speaking, with the black people. What they did not want or did on the territory of OTL US, they will not want or they will try to do on the whole American territory.

 

[GohanLSSJ2]

If you want it to be English speaking, gigantic genocide is the only not ASBish way to do it.

Do you realize that until the 1930´s, native born Spanish speaking Amerindian Californians were expelled from California to Mexico because they were supposed to be Mexicans ?

Most people in the US did not want to live with the amerindians, with the Spanish or Portuguese speaking, with the black people. What they did not want or did on the territory of OTL US, they will not want or they will try to do on the whole American territory.

The "extinction of the Latin race" was a common idea amongst Anglo-Americans at the time, so very likely they'd try to kill us all if they tried to control the entire continent.

Or, if we're "lucky", become slaves of the Southrners.

No, any Union encompassing all of América can not have a primarily English culture unless through genocide. Such a Union will ultimately become Latin American in nature lest we are all brutally butchered and forcefully assimilated, we are just that big a population.

 

[sloreck]

IMHO US expansion south of OTL Panama is ASB. The terrain/jungle in the isthmus area will stymie any southward movement by land and consolidation by seaborne invasion in the face of the large populations in South America even in the 19th century is not practical. The USA getting all the Caribbean islands that were Spanish owned, or even Dutch or French is possible, contending with the UK for Jamaica and the other British islands, not really. As far as English speaking goes, if only English is taught in the schools, if only English is used in official documents, and so forth, within a few generations Spanish spoken outside homes will be rare - naturally this will happen more rapidly in urban areas, spreading more slowly to less populated areas.

 

[NAF]

The "extinction of the Latin race" was a common idea amongst Anglo-Americans at the time, so very likely they'd try to kill us all if they tried to control the entire continent.

Or, if we're "lucky", become slaves of the Southrners.

No, any Union encompassing all of América can not have a primarily English culture unless through genocide. Such a Union will ultimately become Latin American in nature lest we are all brutally butchered and forcefully assimilated, we are just that big a population.

I suppose I wasn't clear enough in my original post. By "initially English speaking" I meant that the 13 colonies or their equivalent must be founded by an English speaking European power, not that the country should have a mainly Anglo culture and be mostly English speaking by the time it controlled both continents. Ideally, such a massive and diverse polity would see its various languages on equal footing, in addition to having anglo and hispanic cultures intermixed with one another.

 

[GeographyDude]

. . . The US would undoubtedly have to solve its issues with racial and religious intolerance for this to work. . .

I think at the very beginning with Jamestown and Plymouth Colony racial beliefs were not as hardened as they were to later become. And then we have this --

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1p269.html

" . . . In 1660, the English government chartered a company called the "Company of Royal Adventurers Trading to Africa." At first the company was mismanaged, but in 1663 it was reorganized. . . "

Well . . . Shit! If only we could have had a little bit more mismanagement!

 

[EnvarKadri]

Even if the english colonized all of the Americas the geographical distance and economical differences of the regions would lead to different countries. Most of the otl Latin America and the Caribeans would have similar societies as in otl because the "easy money" available in natural resources, native populations to exploit or good soil for cashcrops that lead to the american south be not too different from Latin America until the civil war, and I would argue that the south continued to be greatly undeveloped until the trasfer of industrial jobs from the north in the second half of the 20th century. Regardless, there would be a huge % of the continent mostly populated by free mestizo, native or black peoples in too high numbers to be displaced so americans wouldn't want those regions. Also undeveloped resource exporting regions would prefer to be keep english rule for longer then USA otl 13 colonies or would prefer a separate independence anyway so to not have to deal with the american northwest protectionism. Remember that otl Spanish and Portuguese america only got their independence in the early 19th century because their metroplis collapsed under napoleonic invation, and is harder to imagine England falling to a foreign invation.

 

[raharris1973]

So aside from the classic (if done to death) Rome-wank, the idea of a United States spanning across all of the Americas is easily one of my all-time favorite AH concepts. I find it fascinating to ponder how such a state would come into being, and how it would influence the world around it.

Your challenge is as follows: With a POD of anywhere from the dawn of time to 1900, the US (or an entity similar to the US, with my main stipulation that it be initially English-speaking) must have complete ownership of the entirety of both North and South America by the modern day. The US must be democratic in nature, with all peoples and states having equal representation in the government (so no "fascist America goes on a conquering spree").

With a POD of literally whenever, is this even remotely possible? And if it is, how would such a state even function? I imagine that the government would work far differently than the government of OTL US. The US would undoubtedly have to solve its issues with racial and religious intolerance for this to work.

I truly hope that there is a way for such a state to come into being without turning into a dystopic nightmare. I absolutely love the idea of a multicultural pan-American hyperpower serving as a shining beacon of liberty and democracy.

Post OTL US independence PoDs, and the racial baggage they imply, are neither necessary, nor really adequate, to meet the OP’s challenge.


The simplest PoDs are England discovering the Americas. Best if they discover it via the Caribbean first and get to Mexico rather quickly. Taking over the settled empires would encourage racial mixing.


This could even happen if England discovers America by the northern route, if, the English spend the next 50 years looking for a “Passage to India” by coasting south till they reach Mesoamerica.

Just have these initially English colonies become independent of England but united between themselves, and voila.

 

[VaultJumper]

I have an Idea of having several PoDs in the 7 years war which causes all of the British holdings to either Join the revolution, taken by the Americans, to be taken in the future, or have an American claim on them.