Not that there's actually much difference in practice.Slight correction. Lore wise both the Jacobins and Browder are Trotskyists, not Stalinists.
Not that there's actually much difference in practice.Slight correction. Lore wise both the Jacobins and Browder are Trotskyists, not Stalinists.
True. Just pointing it out.Not that there's actually much difference in practice.
tbh since Trotsky won the power struggle TTL and not Stalin, pretty much anyone following Lenin's "democratic centralism" crap would probably call themselves Trotskyist.True. Just pointing it out.
...why would you get that idea? Historically most of the people involved with, for example, Red American politics were actively egalitarian and anti-racist, and the IWW (vanguard of the revolution in America, and much stronger than OTL due to a much less internally destructive '20s) was FOUNDED on the idea of inter-ethnic cooperation against capitalist attempts at ethnic and racial divide et impera.I'm quite surprised by the radical social egalitarianism many syndicalists show, IMO a pretty big chunk of their trade unions would oppose these things and actually end up being pretty conservative.
You forgot Tuchachevsky.In-game stalinists (flagged as totalists) include: Marcel Deat (who can become such an asshole that Gamelin lets the NatFrench back in to spite him), Earl Browder.
I was thinking more along the lines of being surprised at the degree of gay rights and gender equality they can achieve by the standards of the time period, but you are right, I was probably partially thinking of OTL communist governments.tbh since Trotsky won the power struggle TTL and not Stalin, pretty much anyone following Lenin's "democratic centralism" crap would probably call themselves Trotskyist.
...why would you get that idea? Historically most of the people involved with, for example, Red American politics were actively egalitarian and anti-racist, and the IWW (vanguard of the revolution in America, and much stronger than OTL due to a much less internally destructive '20s) was FOUNDED on the idea of inter-ethnic cooperation against capitalist attempts at ethnic and racial divide et impera.
The USSR OTL co-opted Russian nationalism pretty fast, and even then, de jure women had equal rights from pretty early on.I was thinking more along the lines of being surprised at the degree of gay rights and gender equality they can achieve by the standards of the time period, but you are right, I was probably partially thinking of OTL communist governments.
That is not the only reason of cource. I am not suggesting that you are saying this, but not everone who does not support a radical left idea is a far righter.Out of universe, it's hated for memetic reasons. Syndicalism is similar to councilism and has a heavy emphasis on direct democracy and egalitarianism, which angers a lot of players who just got off of 4chan and want to physically remove the commies with Pinochet's helicopter rides
The ww1 german unions opposed women in the factorysm quite surprised by the radical social egalitarianism many syndicalists show, IMO a pretty big chunk of their trade unions would oppose these things and actually end up being pretty conservative.
All of the people I've seen complaining the Syndies are airbrushed use the OTL USSR as an example of why they think the Syndies are airbrushed, which is like using Adolf Hitler as an example of why John McCain's beliefs are evil. The ideologies only bear the faintest similarity and disagree on literally every specific, just as while McCain and Hitler were both on the right wing of politics, their actual ideologies were completely different in every way. It's just horrible logic.That is not the only reason of cource. I am not suggesting that you are saying this, but not everone who does not support a radical left idea is a far righter.
Somepeople think that Synicatism is airbrushed to look far better than (in thier opion) it should be.
Agree r.e. USSR comparison being not the greatest - I prefer to think of the post war conseous unions having even more power - which is still bad IMO, but still. I think some people want to fight Stawman socailist.All of the people I've seen complaining the Syndies are airbrushed use the OTL USSR as an example of why they think the Syndies are airbrushed, which is like using Adolf Hitler as an example of why John McCain's beliefs are evil. The ideologies only bear the faintest similarity and disagree on literally every specific, just as while McCain and Hitler were both on the right wing of politics, their actual ideologies were completely different in every way. It's just horrible logic
What's bad about the unions having more power? Gilded Age showed just how bad unregulated capitalism can get. You only need to look at modern Bangladesh or China to see the same. Or the American video-game industry. Corporations are driven by short-term profit, and employees are just another resource to be tapped.Agree r.e. USSR comparison being not the greatest - I prefer to think of the post war conseous unions having even more power - which is still bad IMO, but still. I think some people want to fight Stawman socailist.
I also think that the mod just went "Britain and France are both under a socailist regium which has never been tried and it works perfectly and even is really socially liberal" can be annoying(I do know that synicatism as a basis, but still).
The ideolgies are not different in everyway, of cource. They are both anti-bougeroius and revolutionary for example?
Aguement for another place maybe?What's bad about the unions having more power?
The Question then is why would worker in thier unions electe someone who wants to increase compettion for their jobs?Plus, as stated above, most far-left groups, including the blocs that are key elements in KR and became powerful leftist movements in our world, were very socially egalitarian. Annie Kenney? Suffragette and leftist. The IWW? Emphatically and explicitly anti-racist. This is just a logical consequence of those people and groups getting power.
They are, just no more then any two ideolgies are comparable.The two just straight-up aren't comparable.
Perhaps, but with women having the right to vote that won't be a concern. Also, it's hard to see the pressures favoring a two income household for the poor going away so quickly even under syndicalism.2. I wonder if some workers would prefer it if thier wife was depant apon them though? If they have a steady job they might not see the need for liberalisation?
3. nit-picking
No, not really, sorry.3. Is nit picking really helpful to this debate?
Slight correction. Lore wise both the Jacobins and Browder are Trotskyists, not Stalinists.
No. The Jacobins were basically founded by Trotsky during his exile, and (as in OTL with CPUSA) during Trotsky's visit to NYC he laid the foundation of the American Vanguardist Movement entirely. Even if he didn't have as much time to expand on his school of thought, Trotsky still had differences in thought with Lenin.Uhh, aren't they more Leninists/Bolshevists in general? Trotsky didn't really get that much time in the sun, in this TL. Neither did Stalin, obviously.
No. The Jacobins were basically founded by Trotsky during his exile, and (as in OTL with CPUSA) during Trotsky's visit to NYC he laid the foundation of the American Vanguardist Movement entirely. Even if he didn't have as much time to expand on his school of thought, Trotsky still had differences in thought with Lenin.