Potato all over the Americas

[Richard V]

Since we have a polethora of potato threads right now, how about one not on the potato's global impact but just that of the New World. What if the potato spread out of the Andes and becomes established everywhere that it could be supported by agriculture in South and North America in pre-Columbian times. I'm reluctant to give a specific POD as I don't want to limit the conversation.

So basically the green parts of this map, exclusive to the New World.

 

[Arkenfolm]

I've read conquistadors encountered the potato in at least one Mesoamerican state. I'm not sure how true that is, but there's always the potential of the potato spreading to the region.

Would be nice to have the potato if you're a North American culture.

 

[Malta]

I did come up with a potato TL where it was native to the PNW.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/land-of-salmon-and-totems-2-0.202767/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...and-totems-salmon-and-totems-spin-off.405314/

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

Probably unnecessary, but I feel the need to point out the range of modern potato production isn't a representation of all possible productive potato regions. We do grow other things and such.\

I've read conquistadors encountered the potato in at least one Mesoamerican state. I'm not sure how true that is, but there's always the potential of the potato spreading to the region.

Would be nice to have the potato if you're a North American culture.

Where did you read that?

 

[Arkenfolm]

Probably unnecessary, but I feel the need to point out the range of modern potato production isn't a representation of all possible productive potato regions. We do grow other things and such.\


Where did you read that?

It's been a while since I saw the claim. It was on an agriculture website. It does seem it was in Mexico very soon after the Spanish conquered the Andes.

 

[Dave Howery]

where can the potato grow in the new world? I know it would have done well in present day America, but what about points south of it? I thought it didn't do well in tropical areas? There's a bit of a gap in the Andes home of the potato and the temperate regions of the north...

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Just give the Pacific coast seafarers from Chincha a better navigation package, maybe via Polynesian influence. Then you'll see more South American innovations making their way north.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Probably unnecessary, but I feel the need to point out the range of modern potato production isn't a representation of all possible productive potato regions. We do grow other things and such.\

Yeah, the best places for commercial growing aren't the same as places where potatoes can influence culture the most. Potatoes could radically increase population density as far north as coastal Alaska. They could be a summer crop in cooler places, and grow over winter in places like Mexico. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the Americas that wouldn't benefit from potato introduction. The Pacific Northwest is the most obvious place, since they already produced a food surplus with no agriculture and had plenty of protein in their diet (the one thing potatoes don't provide).

 

[Aspiring Author]

Yeah, the best places for commercial growing aren't the same as places where potatoes can influence culture the most. Potatoes could radically increase population density as far north as coastal Alaska. They could be a summer crop in cooler places, and grow over winter in places like Mexico. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the Americas that wouldn't benefit from potato introduction. The Pacific Northwest is the most obvious place, since they already produced a food surplus with no agriculture and had plenty of protein in their diet (the one thing potatoes don't provide).

How many potatoes would need to be introduced to the Pacific Northwest for it to make a huge difference? What would be the impact of introducing the potato in say 439 BC? Would you still see it's impact amongst the indigenous people, such at the Tlingit, today?

 

[telynk]

Yeah, the best places for commercial growing aren't the same as places where potatoes can influence culture the most. Potatoes could radically increase population density as far north as coastal Alaska. They could be a summer crop in cooler places, and grow over winter in places like Mexico. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the Americas that wouldn't benefit from potato introduction. The Pacific Northwest is the most obvious place, since they already produced a food surplus with no agriculture and had plenty of protein in their diet (the one thing potatoes don't provide).

The Coast Salish were already experienced in the tending of beds of root vegetables (Wapato, Camas, etc.), although whether or not this counts as "agriculture" is up for debate. I could see the introduction of the potato (a much more productive root crop) leading to full-scale agriculture pretty quickly.

How many potatoes would need to be introduced to the Pacific Northwest for it to make a huge difference? What would be the impact of introducing the potato in say 439 BC? Would you still see it's impact amongst the indigenous people, such at the Tlingit, today?

You really wouldn't need that many. As I said, the Coast Salish were already tending root crops. They'd really just need to have a single boatload of potatoes arrive and someone have the idea of planting some in their wapato patch. It would certainly take some luck, but I really think it could make a dramatic shift in lifestyles. After 2000 years, you'd see dramatically different cultures at the time of European contact.

 

[Aspiring Author]

The Coast Salish were already experienced in the tending of beds of root vegetables (Wapato, Camas, etc.), although whether or not this counts as "agriculture" is up for debate. I could see the introduction of the potato (a much more productive root crop) leading to full-scale agriculture pretty quickly.



You really wouldn't need that many. As I said, the Coast Salish were already tending root crops. They'd really just need to have a single boatload of potatoes arrive and someone have the idea of planting some in their wapato patch. It would certainly take some luck, but I really think it could make a dramatic shift in lifestyles. After 2000 years, you'd see dramatically different cultures at the time of European contact.

So significantly higher population densities in the north, definitely writing (since the Mikmak had it), but probably still without their own diseases to give back.

 

[Lusitania]

Just give the Pacific coast seafarers from Chincha a better navigation package, maybe via Polynesian influence. Then you'll see more South American innovations making their way north.

This could of had a much greater impact though in the new world. We could of seen a New world Carthage appear.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

The Coast Salish were already experienced in the tending of beds of root vegetables (Wapato, Camas, etc.), although whether or not this counts as "agriculture" is up for debate. I could see the introduction of the potato (a much more productive root crop) leading to full-scale agriculture pretty quickly.

People on the outer coast of the Olympic Peninsula raised potatoes, probably introduced by Spanish seafarers, with very little change to their existing lifestyle. Potatoes would be an effortless introduction, unlike a lot of the more hare-brained schemes people like to come up with.

 

[Lenwe]

where can the potato grow in the new world? I know it would have done well in present day America, but what about points south of it? I thought it didn't do well in tropical areas? There's a bit of a gap in the Andes home of the potato and the temperate regions of the north...

Well The potato in América could be grown from Alaska until Tierra del fuego, without gaps. This including artificial irrigated wasteland and desert, like The southern USA- northern México, southern Peru-Bolivia northern Chile- Argentina.
The southern most point I'm sure they cultivate potato Is in Punta Arenas, Chile.
In respect to The tropics.The potato Is an important cultivate in Cuba With a production of more than 300.000 tons. And have a important production in centroamérica as well, so The potato do well in pretty much everywhere outside permafrost, an Even there something could be done

imágen, potato cultivation in Centro América Thousands of Tons

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

It's been a while since I saw the claim. It was on an agriculture website. It does seem it was in Mexico very soon after the Spanish conquered the Andes.

I can't find any references to pre-Colombian potatoes north of the Andes. The Aztec had plenty of sweet potatoes but don't seem to have had any actual potatoes before the Spanish arrived.

Also, "Potatoes require a cool but frost-free growing season of 75 to 135 or more days. The ideal potato growing temperature is 45° to 80°F. Hot weather will reduce the number of tubers per plant. Potatoes prefer well-drained fertile soil high in organic matter with pH of 5.0 to 5.5." So basically the potato will have some growing season almost everywhere in North America outside of tropical regions.

 

[Lenwe]

I can't find any references to pre-Colombian potatoes north of the Andes. The Aztec had plenty of sweet potatoes but don't seem to have had any actual potatoes before the Spanish arrived.

Also, "Potatoes require a cool but frost-free growing season of 75 to 135 or more days. The ideal potato growing temperature is 45° to 80°F. Hot weather will reduce the number of tubers per plant. Potatoes prefer well-drained fertile soil high in organic matter with pH of 5.0 to 5.5." So basically the potato will have some growing season almost everywhere in North America outside of tropical regions.

The do grow in the tropics, really well to tell The true
https://www.wur.nl/en/show/Potatoes-profitable-for-both-growers-and-consumers-in-the-tropics.htm

But Is a "Winters" crop there