AHC: European settler state in Asia

[TruthfulPanda]

Manchuria had more than three million people in 1850.

Which, for a country of that size, is nothing.

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

Which, for a country of that size, is nothing.

Manchuria isn’t a country.

It also had a population density equivalent to that of Canada in 2018, and one somewhat smaller than that of Iran at the same time.

This is far from “nothing.”

 

[Tripledot]

I could see Hokkaido being majority "European" with the right PoDs.

 

[TruthfulPanda]

Manchuria isn’t a country.

Point.

It also had a population density equivalent to that of Canada in 2018, and one somewhat smaller than that of Iran at the same time.

Neither comparisons is very apt good - the former has enormous unpopullated tundra, the latter - desert. IMHO a better comparison would be looking at the population today - 100M. Or looking at Sweden.

This is far from “nothing.”

For an area - depending on your definition of Manchuria - 500K to 1M km2 (France is c.550K km2) - 3M it is close to nothing.
I agree that getting the settlers there might be a bit of bother - but an earlier Trans-Siberian RR would solve that.

I could see Hokkaido being majority "European" with the right PoDs.

Yup - 1868-69 is the best POD here, IMO.

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

Or looking at Sweden.

Case in point. Norway in 1800 had less than two-thirds the population density of Manchuria the same year.

 

[TruthfulPanda]

Case in point. Norway in 1800 had less than two-thirds the population density of Manchuria the same year.

But won hands down in quantity of mountains!

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

But won hands down in quantity of mountains!

I mean, I think the point is clear by now. Manchuria was sparsely populated, but it had more than enough people to make any actual European colonization on the scale of the Americas implausible. Not to mention the Qing would never have ceded Manchuria in the Second Opium War.

 

[Avrorrange]

Siberia becomes independent.

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

James Brooke of Sarawak could encourage European traders and Labourers to settle there.

 

[lotrian]

Most likely Portuguese or Dutch Formosa

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

Most likely Portuguese or Dutch Formosa

Too many Chinese.

 

[kasumigenx]

Too many Chinese.

I think the fall of ming can be butterflied for it to flourish.

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

I think the fall of ming can be butterflied for it to flourish.

There were lots of Chinese in Taiwan from the very beginning of the colony (before the colony, hell).

 

[kasumigenx]

There were lots of Chinese in Taiwan from the very beginning of the colony (before the colony, hell).

Proof?

 

[Hamersley Macdonnell II]

The Andaman and Nicobar Islands are retained by Britain/made a Dominion where Anglo-Indians/Anglo-Burmese are settled. Many local Indians are "repatriated" while the indigenous peoples are given reservations akin to Indian reservations in the US/Canada. Other European descended ethnic groups in India and Southeast Asia are also given offers to settle the islands.

So assuming worse conditions in post-colonial Asia and a friendly government giving numerous benefits to white immigrants, it's possible to make a majority white state in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Although since many of these groups have partial descent from local people and others were married to local women, whites would probably only be a plurality at best, with significant mixed-race populations as well as a sizable minority of Indians and local peoples. Later, many white Rhodesians and Kenyans settle there, as well as some Anglo-South Africans starting during the later days of Apartheid.

I've created such a state, the dominion of Andaman and Frederick Islands, where 66% of people are of European descent, with 24% of these being Eurasians and the rest purely European. In my state, the Danish colonization of Nicobars (Frederiksøerne) was succesful, but Denmark still sold the islands to UK in 1868. However, there are a few thousand Danish and Norwegian Nicobarese, and Danish is an official language alongside English in Nicobar district. A Danish creole has evolved in the islands. Several prime ministers, including the first one, have been of Danish descent. In my version, Denmark allowed the Austrian settlers to stay as well, so there are a couple thousand Germans and German is co-official language in Nicobars. The largest ethnic group of European descent is still British/Anglo-Indians even in the Nicobars, but they are majority indigenous while Andamans are majority non-indigenous.

 

[Hamersley Macdonnell II]

There were lots of Chinese in Taiwan from the very beginning of the colony (before the colony, hell).

I've read from wikipedia that Dutch started the recruiting of Chinese immigrants to Taiwan.

 

[Hamersley Macdonnell II]

that is possible.

I've created a Hispanic Republic of Hermosa, which is based on the premise that the Spaniards retained their portion of the island up until 1898 while the Dutch areas were occupied by the Chinese. Hermosa was then annexed by Magellanica as a result of the Spanish-American-Magellanican war and given independence in 1951, the island now being divided between ROC and Hermosa.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

I could just imagine a scenario where Suez Canal opened 50 or 100 years earlier than OTL or air-conditioning invented a century earlier. Had these POD happened, Spanish colonies in the Philippines particularly in Mindanao would have been settled by Southern European immigrants, Singapore or Sarawak would have been populated by British settlers, and West New Guinea would have significant Dutch population.

 

[Lucius Verus]

I've tossed over the idea of an European Formosa, IOTL there were jade deposits that was exploited by hand tools post WWII in the eastern mountains of Taiwan, mechanized by the 1975 . Should these be discovered earlier it would give an European kingdom something to trade with Canton that the Chinese actually wanted instead of silver or opium. Some kingdoms such as Portugal relied extensively on secrecy to protect its empire least a stronger empire took over and that may be the rationale to use settlers instead of local slaves/labour. A decent economic and political rationale for a settler colony, the question was how.

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

Should these be discovered earlier it would give an European kingdom something to trade with Canton that the Chinese actually wanted instead of silver or opium.

The Chinese imported tons of things besides silver and opium, including jade (from Central Asia). This did not result in any European settler colonies to farm rice (in high demand in the developed regions of China) or birds’ nest.