Der Manstein Kommt (Non ASB Seamammal) pre TL discussion

BlairWitch749

Banned
I am going to put Manstein in Africa/Rommel's Barbarossa on hold for a little bit and the Von Mudra Line is being handicapped by slow research and will have to come later

So my intention is to create Der Manstein Kommt (Manstein Comes) A non asb invasion of England with a POD in October of 1939 and an invasion of England by August 1940 with much less than 5% of Germany's war economy being changed by the POD

your thoughts, ideas and possibilites are greatly appreciated as I start to craft this
 

Hades

A Non-ASB SEA MAMMAL?! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Thande will pass down the only sentence for this blasphemy.

Unmentionable sea mammal is unmentionable!
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
Avalon1 said:
A Non-ASB SEA MAMMAL?! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Thande will pass down the only sentence for this blasphemy.

Unmentionable sea mammal is unmentionable!
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This can and shall change the very nature of the sea mammal... it will be considered a plausible military operation once Manstein is done with it... in fact he may christen the operation "sea lion":eek:
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
a question to help with my prep for the TL

do you think in the summer of 1940 the British would risk battleships in the Channel? I know Queen Elizabeth was docked at Portsmouth but do you think they would dispatch the other battleships to the channel given the risks of mines and air attack during a Manstein landing?
 

Nivek

BlairWitch749 said:
Ah yes but there will be no mystical dark magic aquatic mammals in mine... just Manstein's strategic genius and some very minor changes to the German war economy
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Even the super-genius of Von Manstein can alone made a decissive POD(i think someone said about the Von Manstein Cliche), but i remember who was the perfect POD for a (a least) Pausable Invasion of Britain(but not maritime)

The Rubensdoffer doctrine and the victory in The Battle of Britain(read the pdf file is very educative and interesting)


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R1020532

http://rapidshare.com/files/30155234...ensdorffer.pdf

(i'm planing made someting with this put you're free of use it)
 

Astrodragon

BlairWitch749 said:
a question to help with my prep for the TL

do you think in the summer of 1940 the British would risk battleships in the Channel? I know Queen Elizabeth was docked at Portsmouth but do you think they would dispatch the other battleships to the channel given the risks of mines and air attack during a Manstein landing?
Click to expand...

Yes. Probably one at a time, unless the KM miraculously survives Norway, I'd expect comitting some of the old R class, they wern't considered good for much, in this situation they'd be considered expendable.

Presumably they are there to watch Manstein walking across the channel..or is he just going to part the waters a la Moses...??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

T3h_shammy

Manstein was good. He was however unable to mass produce Hundreds of ships needed to maintain naval superiority and he was unable to make Goring not a dumbass. I don't see it happening
 

chris N

Probably not unless the Germans were successful in their landing as they would not want to risk the battleship being sunk by the Luftwaffe.
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
Astrodragon said:
Yes. Probably one at a time, unless the KM miraculously survives Norway, I'd expect comitting some of the old R class, they wern't considered good for much, in this situation they'd be considered expendable.

Presumably they are there to watch Manstein walking across the channel..or is he just going to part the waters a la Moses...??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

1 at a time he can beat

Norway will be more or less otl for this timeline

Manstein will have no mesiah type crossing nor will there be any Macaurther type photo ops... just a standard crossing with little fanfare
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
T3h_shammy said:
Manstein was good. He was however unable to mass produce Hundreds of ships needed to maintain naval superiority and he was unable to make Goring not a dumbass. I don't see it happening
Click to expand...

air superiority is not a requirement for Der Manstein Kommt... just parity is needed and not beyond reach especially over the channel itself

there will be some modest changes to the german shipping inventory but nothing earth shattering ... far less than 5% war production shift
 

T3h_shammy

The problem which I think your timeline will fail to address is that yes they need parity but unless they can somehow get to London within a few days and force the capitulation of the British government they are forced to contend with the RN who will swarm towards the area and the RAF which realistically can not be totally defeated even if the Germans do much better in the BoB.

Of course I can't say what your planning but the Britons were very serious with the whole "We will fight them on the beaches" rhetoric. Massive amounts of manpower will swarm to defend Britain and I question Germany's ability to successfully resupply their army in Britain. So yes they can invade, do some damage, etc. But can they win the war against Britain I really don't think so. Not with the little change you are planning to impose.

America is also an x-factor. I believe the undeclared war in the Atlantic was alive and well at this time. All it takes is for the American's to manufacture another Lusitania type event or even an American warship going down and the tide will be forever turned on the Axis powers. With Germany close to invasion it may drive America closer to aiding the nations which they most closely associate and trade with.

Just my two cents on some things I was thinking about. :)
 

BlackWave

Unless you have a really original POD and setup, prepare to recieve heavy bombardment. Hunker down in a bunker 30 underground, prefrably.
 
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