You have ever half planned some ATL timelines who likely will never be written?
- Thread starter isabella
- Start date
The Red Rose of Bedford
The POD is Elizabeth Woodville is born earlier than OTL as daughter of Jacquetta by her first husband instead of the second. Elizabeth of Lancaster, Duchess of Bedford (as heiress of her father) became a ward of the Regent, Richard Duke of York and is quickly engaged to his eldest son with the dislike of both. While Elizabeth and Edward do not like each other they still accepted their forced match (who will have a lot of quarrels from both sides) and had a lot of children. As Edward of Westminster here is never born, Edward of York and Elizabeth of Bedford became King and Queen of England at the death of her cousin Henry VI.
Another version had Edward of Westminster born as OTL with much of the Wars of the Roses still going as OTL until the death of Edward of Westminster as OTL (Warwick’s rebellion here happened because Edward IV refuted to consent to marry his younger brothers to Warwick’s daughters, George married Isabel without consent and then they escaped to the continent where Warwick allied with Margaret of Anjou marrying Anne to Edward of Westminster). After the deaths of Edward of Westminster and Henry VI, the War of the Roses ended forever as Edward and Elizabeth’s children are the legitimate heirs of both the Lancaster and the York/Clarence claims.
The Red Princess
At the death of Edward of Westminster, Anne Neville is pregnant. Her child is an healthy daughter. The newborn Mary, Duchess of Lancaster is quickly engaged to Edward, Prince of Wales and became a ward of Queen Elizabeth, her future mother-in-law growing-up in the royal household together with her future in-laws. Both Margaret of Anjou and Anne Neville are allowed to see the girl but always under supervision. After remarrying to Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Anne is more free to see her daughter and also to have her as guest in her house sometimes. Anne of Brittany here will be engaged to Richard, Duke of York while Edward of Middleham will get the heiress Anne Mowbray. Clarence and Edward IV will die as OTL but Richard of Gloucester will not be in the position to usurp the crown of Edward V and Mary and so will be simply Edward’s regent.
The POD is Elizabeth Woodville is born earlier than OTL as daughter of Jacquetta by her first husband instead of the second. Elizabeth of Lancaster, Duchess of Bedford (as heiress of her father) became a ward of the Regent, Richard Duke of York and is quickly engaged to his eldest son with the dislike of both. While Elizabeth and Edward do not like each other they still accepted their forced match (who will have a lot of quarrels from both sides) and had a lot of children. As Edward of Westminster here is never born, Edward of York and Elizabeth of Bedford became King and Queen of England at the death of her cousin Henry VI.
Another version had Edward of Westminster born as OTL with much of the Wars of the Roses still going as OTL until the death of Edward of Westminster as OTL (Warwick’s rebellion here happened because Edward IV refuted to consent to marry his younger brothers to Warwick’s daughters, George married Isabel without consent and then they escaped to the continent where Warwick allied with Margaret of Anjou marrying Anne to Edward of Westminster). After the deaths of Edward of Westminster and Henry VI, the War of the Roses ended forever as Edward and Elizabeth’s children are the legitimate heirs of both the Lancaster and the York/Clarence claims.
The Red Princess
At the death of Edward of Westminster, Anne Neville is pregnant. Her child is an healthy daughter. The newborn Mary, Duchess of Lancaster is quickly engaged to Edward, Prince of Wales and became a ward of Queen Elizabeth, her future mother-in-law growing-up in the royal household together with her future in-laws. Both Margaret of Anjou and Anne Neville are allowed to see the girl but always under supervision. After remarrying to Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Anne is more free to see her daughter and also to have her as guest in her house sometimes. Anne of Brittany here will be engaged to Richard, Duke of York while Edward of Middleham will get the heiress Anne Mowbray. Clarence and Edward IV will die as OTL but Richard of Gloucester will not be in the position to usurp the crown of Edward V and Mary and so will be simply Edward’s regent.
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Here is a number of tls that I have thought on some, but cannot do as of the moment, due to my current Assyrian timeline:
The Radiant Justice of Mithra Shines once More!
A tl covering the implications of the victory of Bahram Chobin Mihran over Khosrau II and Eastern Emperor Maurice. The basis of this, is that Vistahm and Vindyih Ispahbudhan both slay Hormizd IV and take Khosrau II to Syria to plan a return to power of the Sassanid royalty. In otl, this came with Maurice giving his support to the young Great King. However, the Sassanid counter invasion, while also an Roman army, was most thoroughly supplemented by the armies of the Bagratuni of Armenia under King Smbat IV. The Armenians, Khosrau II, the Isphahbudhan and the Byzantines essentially battled Bahram and defeated him in the civil war, before Bahram fled to the east, joining the court of the Celestial Turks.
The POD would be, in the days when Bahram expelled Khosrau II, he sent word to Smbat of Bagratuni regarding their situation. He stated in very plain terms, that he wished to make cause with the children of the Arsacid clan and to rebuild Eranshahr under a new a righteous dynasty. He offered the Bagratuni a place as a ruling noble clan alongside his Mihran clan and the two alongside the other nobles, would rule the empire under a restored Confederacy. In otl, the Sassanids performed this relation with the Suren and the Ispahbudhan; Bahram wished for his Mihran clan to rule and at their side, would be the dual rulers, the Armenian Bagratuni. What if Smbat IV accepted Bahram's offer and the Armenians instead of joining Khosrau II, joined the new Mihranid empire and fought the Sassanids along with Bahram?
Thus, Bahram and his Armenian allies battle Khosrau II, the Ispahbudhan clan and Maurice in Iraq. Owing to the legendary skill of Bahram, the Mihranid-Armenian army defeats the Sassanid restorationist army and Maurice after the failure returns to Imperial lands to plan how to recapture Armenia. Meanwhile, we say Khosrau II is captured and slain by the new emperor as Ardashir I had done to the last Arsacid Great King.... Following this, Bahram makes peace with the Ispahbudhan, Suren and other clans. Bahram further marches to the lands of the Karenids and gains from them agreement in the new confederacy.
In essence, a new empire is borne and a third dynasty arises, the Mihranid dynasty. In short order, the Sassanids are reviled in history as fanatics, low born usurpers of pristine Parthian-Dahae noble lineages and were punished by the God Mithra for their transgressions. We see too, the resurgence of Iranian polytheism, Iraqi polytheism, the end of Iranian standing armies, empowering of the nobility, the proclamation of the Mihranid clan kings as heirs of Mithra and saviors of the world, the decline of Zoroastrianism and so forth.
An Eastern Star Moves West
This is another post-Sassanid tl, centered upon Iran. In otl, the Celestial Turk Empire, ruled by the divine Ashina clan began to unravel in the middle 7th century under pressure from the Tang Dynasty of China and from the Tibetan empire. This effect began to creat effects in the 8th century with the complete fall of the Celestial Turkic empire in the steppe and the flight of the Ashina clan to the Pontic steppe, often referred to as the Khazars. However, what if this occurred in a different direction?
What if the Ashina clan moves not into the Pontic steppe, but pushes into Eranshahr? The idea is that the Ashina invade either the ailing Sassanid empire or the Islamic caliphate and makes common cause with the Karenids and Surenids and form with them, a Confederacy, restoring Eranshahr. The Ashina prepare then and invade the rest of Iran, conquering it and restoring the empire, which comes to be called, the Ashinid Empire. A Turkic dynasty on the throne of Eranshahr, with a religious ideology of a divine bloodline of godly steppe warriors molding to the existing Iranian situation of the noble houses and their bloodlines and the existing religious condition, gives us many interesting possible occurrences. Not to mention, a possibly more eastern focused empire, that attempts to expand against the Tang, Tibet and set a border at the Indus. Further, greater migration and connection between Turks and the Indo-European sphere than even otl will be achieved.
A City Arises from the Swamp
This would be a tl with a POD set in the Zanj rebellion. It concludes a death of al-Muwaffaq in his early campaign against the Zanj. This leads to a Saffarid invasion of Iraq as otl, but without the great Caliphal regent and his prowess in warfare. Instead, what develops in Iraq, is an Abbasid caliphate slowly breaking at the seems, a rising Saffarid empire and the Zanj developing for themselves a powerful realm in the south and Arabia. This would mostly deal with cultural, state and religious developments within the Zanj realms of the south and the legacy that they would create if not destroyed in a single war, but instead developed separately. So, this would include, the development and an atl discussion of the expansion and culture of the Zanj capitol of al-Mukhtara and the Zanj controlled Mecca. Further, the atl would expand to include the rising Qarmatians, the Tulunids, the Samanids, the Fatimids and the Byzantine counter upon the caliphate, in deep decline.
If these are of interest to you guys, do tell! It is possible that I write them someday after my Assyrian timeline is finished or due to reasons, made obsolete.
The Radiant Justice of Mithra Shines once More!
A tl covering the implications of the victory of Bahram Chobin Mihran over Khosrau II and Eastern Emperor Maurice. The basis of this, is that Vistahm and Vindyih Ispahbudhan both slay Hormizd IV and take Khosrau II to Syria to plan a return to power of the Sassanid royalty. In otl, this came with Maurice giving his support to the young Great King. However, the Sassanid counter invasion, while also an Roman army, was most thoroughly supplemented by the armies of the Bagratuni of Armenia under King Smbat IV. The Armenians, Khosrau II, the Isphahbudhan and the Byzantines essentially battled Bahram and defeated him in the civil war, before Bahram fled to the east, joining the court of the Celestial Turks.
The POD would be, in the days when Bahram expelled Khosrau II, he sent word to Smbat of Bagratuni regarding their situation. He stated in very plain terms, that he wished to make cause with the children of the Arsacid clan and to rebuild Eranshahr under a new a righteous dynasty. He offered the Bagratuni a place as a ruling noble clan alongside his Mihran clan and the two alongside the other nobles, would rule the empire under a restored Confederacy. In otl, the Sassanids performed this relation with the Suren and the Ispahbudhan; Bahram wished for his Mihran clan to rule and at their side, would be the dual rulers, the Armenian Bagratuni. What if Smbat IV accepted Bahram's offer and the Armenians instead of joining Khosrau II, joined the new Mihranid empire and fought the Sassanids along with Bahram?
Thus, Bahram and his Armenian allies battle Khosrau II, the Ispahbudhan clan and Maurice in Iraq. Owing to the legendary skill of Bahram, the Mihranid-Armenian army defeats the Sassanid restorationist army and Maurice after the failure returns to Imperial lands to plan how to recapture Armenia. Meanwhile, we say Khosrau II is captured and slain by the new emperor as Ardashir I had done to the last Arsacid Great King.... Following this, Bahram makes peace with the Ispahbudhan, Suren and other clans. Bahram further marches to the lands of the Karenids and gains from them agreement in the new confederacy.
In essence, a new empire is borne and a third dynasty arises, the Mihranid dynasty. In short order, the Sassanids are reviled in history as fanatics, low born usurpers of pristine Parthian-Dahae noble lineages and were punished by the God Mithra for their transgressions. We see too, the resurgence of Iranian polytheism, Iraqi polytheism, the end of Iranian standing armies, empowering of the nobility, the proclamation of the Mihranid clan kings as heirs of Mithra and saviors of the world, the decline of Zoroastrianism and so forth.
An Eastern Star Moves West
This is another post-Sassanid tl, centered upon Iran. In otl, the Celestial Turk Empire, ruled by the divine Ashina clan began to unravel in the middle 7th century under pressure from the Tang Dynasty of China and from the Tibetan empire. This effect began to creat effects in the 8th century with the complete fall of the Celestial Turkic empire in the steppe and the flight of the Ashina clan to the Pontic steppe, often referred to as the Khazars. However, what if this occurred in a different direction?
What if the Ashina clan moves not into the Pontic steppe, but pushes into Eranshahr? The idea is that the Ashina invade either the ailing Sassanid empire or the Islamic caliphate and makes common cause with the Karenids and Surenids and form with them, a Confederacy, restoring Eranshahr. The Ashina prepare then and invade the rest of Iran, conquering it and restoring the empire, which comes to be called, the Ashinid Empire. A Turkic dynasty on the throne of Eranshahr, with a religious ideology of a divine bloodline of godly steppe warriors molding to the existing Iranian situation of the noble houses and their bloodlines and the existing religious condition, gives us many interesting possible occurrences. Not to mention, a possibly more eastern focused empire, that attempts to expand against the Tang, Tibet and set a border at the Indus. Further, greater migration and connection between Turks and the Indo-European sphere than even otl will be achieved.
A City Arises from the Swamp
This would be a tl with a POD set in the Zanj rebellion. It concludes a death of al-Muwaffaq in his early campaign against the Zanj. This leads to a Saffarid invasion of Iraq as otl, but without the great Caliphal regent and his prowess in warfare. Instead, what develops in Iraq, is an Abbasid caliphate slowly breaking at the seems, a rising Saffarid empire and the Zanj developing for themselves a powerful realm in the south and Arabia. This would mostly deal with cultural, state and religious developments within the Zanj realms of the south and the legacy that they would create if not destroyed in a single war, but instead developed separately. So, this would include, the development and an atl discussion of the expansion and culture of the Zanj capitol of al-Mukhtara and the Zanj controlled Mecca. Further, the atl would expand to include the rising Qarmatians, the Tulunids, the Samanids, the Fatimids and the Byzantine counter upon the caliphate, in deep decline.
If these are of interest to you guys, do tell! It is possible that I write them someday after my Assyrian timeline is finished or due to reasons, made obsolete.
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mattep74
Kicked
Yes. I am currently in the process of a family tree TL. I have made names for the head of the family from 1400 to present day in a family that goes from rags to riches and back again. Sort of a Forrest gump situation were the family is part of events and meet important people. I thought of doing it back to the start of the homo sapiens era, but i have trouble coming up with names. I thought of starting in the Egyptan era, but coming up with years when the people lived BC is to hard. Then i thought of doing a TL that started in Rome around 10 AD and then go through the ages to modern times. First person start in Rome, then the family somehow ends up in Britain and end up as slaves to Vikings from Denmark and then become Danes until the Kalmar union and then Swedes. I would not make a full TL about every person but just show the Life as a CV, but i do not know if i have the knowledge or the staying Power.
War & peace... and Neutrality.
Basically Imperial Russia realizing logistics and training a professional force are vital, as are infrastructure and modern farming after OTL’s 7 years war.
They skip the 1st (as OTL), 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th (like OTL) War of the Coalition, only fighting the ottomans and testing/refining the upgrades there until nappy invades because Russia won’t join his continental system. The better prepared Russians manage to stop nappy near the border and stop there. Nothing but just enough forces to keep the British barely happy post stopping nappy.
Instead, eastward expansion all the way to Manchuria (and other remote areas of interest) is realized because the Tsar fell in love with Puffing Billy after a courtesy visit to Britain.
The economic boom of both building and exploiting railroads plus its resources like coal, steel etc and focus of quality and logistics build needs for educated citizens. Slowly transforming Russia into a modern... ish monarchy like Britain (when squinting enough).
Then win Jap-Russia, don’t lose WW(1?)
Basically Imperial Russia realizing logistics and training a professional force are vital, as are infrastructure and modern farming after OTL’s 7 years war.
They skip the 1st (as OTL), 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th (like OTL) War of the Coalition, only fighting the ottomans and testing/refining the upgrades there until nappy invades because Russia won’t join his continental system. The better prepared Russians manage to stop nappy near the border and stop there. Nothing but just enough forces to keep the British barely happy post stopping nappy.
Instead, eastward expansion all the way to Manchuria (and other remote areas of interest) is realized because the Tsar fell in love with Puffing Billy after a courtesy visit to Britain.
The economic boom of both building and exploiting railroads plus its resources like coal, steel etc and focus of quality and logistics build needs for educated citizens. Slowly transforming Russia into a modern... ish monarchy like Britain (when squinting enough).
Then win Jap-Russia, don’t lose WW(1?)
Another idea invovling Anne of Brittany's family:
Anne dies leaving only two daughters, Claude and Renée, but Louis XII's last wife Mary Tudor gets pregnant and gives birth to a son in August 1515. The real father's Brandon of course, but the baby's still considered legitimate and succeeds his father from birth, with Mary holding the regency. The Rohan family gets the custody of Anne of Brittany's daughters and Renée becomes Duchess of Brittany, as stipulated by Anne and Louis XII's marriage contract. She later converts to Protestantism and marries Henry VIII, giving him several children.
Anne dies leaving only two daughters, Claude and Renée, but Louis XII's last wife Mary Tudor gets pregnant and gives birth to a son in August 1515. The real father's Brandon of course, but the baby's still considered legitimate and succeeds his father from birth, with Mary holding the regency. The Rohan family gets the custody of Anne of Brittany's daughters and Renée becomes Duchess of Brittany, as stipulated by Anne and Louis XII's marriage contract. She later converts to Protestantism and marries Henry VIII, giving him several children.
I've had one in the back of my mind for a while, but know I'll never write it. Here's what I've been toying with
Another what-if that intrigues me is: What if Berengaria of Navarre bears Richard I a daughter? She wouldn't inherit England, I don't think, but she would get Navarre and, possibly, Aquitaine.
- Juan, Prince of Girona, lives, a Poster Boy for the hazards of inbreeding. Ferdinand being Ferdinand, he will try his best to get his son betrothed to a Princess of Navarre, even though most of them would be old enough to be the boy's mother. Speaking of his mother, I'm undecided if she would be the regent after Ferdinand's death in 1516, or if it would be one of Ferdinand's illegitimate sons, or a combination thereof.
- Henry, Prince of Cornwall, first son of Henry VIII and Katherine of Aragon, also lives. I'm thinking he'll marry Renee of France, eventually, and Anne Boleyn Butler, Countess of Ormond, her childhood friend, would be one of her ladies. Maybe she catches the eye of both Henrys.
- The invasion of France and the Battle of Flodden happen as OTL. And, Ferdinand still being Ferdinand, still screws Henry over, so the marriage between Mary Tudor and Louis XII still takes place. But, after his death, Henry does not send Charles Brandon to France to fetch his sister (I'll never understand why he did this in the first place), thus butterflying away their marriage. I'm thinking she marries the future HRE Charles V. Possibly at Gravelines when she's supposed to be on her way home.
- The other Mary Tudor is born in 1516, as OTL. I'm thinking she would marry the Dauphin Francis, say about 1534, who would die as OTL. But not before she bears him a daughter, Marie-Claude, who is, now, Duchess of Brittany in her own right. There may be another daughter, I don't know.
- Katherine died giving birth to her last child, a daughter named Elizabeth, in November 1518. She'd marry Cousin James in Scotland. Or maybe not. They'd definitely be betrothed, but, knowing James, I don't know as he'd actually marry an Englishwoman.
- Since Bessie Blount would have already been pregnant with Henry Fitzroy by this date, I see no reason to change this.
- Since Prince Henry lived, there wouldn't be quite as much urgency for his father of remarry, so I'm undecided if Henry VIII would marry Isabella of Portugal, or Eleanor of Austria after Manuel dies.
Another what-if that intrigues me is: What if Berengaria of Navarre bears Richard I a daughter? She wouldn't inherit England, I don't think, but she would get Navarre and, possibly, Aquitaine.
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I have an entire spreadsheet dedicated to precisely this and nothing else. Here's a few highlights:
Children of Mars: This is less of an alternate history than a historical thought experiment. The traditional history of the archaic/regnal period of Rome is well-known, but almost certainly fictional and even more recent events, even after the Gallic sack of Rome, are likely very inaccurate, or at least embellished. This TL would break down the development of Rome's institutions (the senate, assemblies, magistracies, laws, etc) in a narrative with well-known characters (Brutus, Cincinnatus, etc) who bear little or no resemblance to the traditional characters. This narrative would have an interesting twist on the various innovations of the Roman state such as a later establishment of the consulship than is traditionally assumed, a gradual rather than abrupt abolition of the monarchy, and a much more intense patrician-plebeian struggle involving the various nearby Latin and Italian tribes.
A Desert Called Peace: The POD for this would either be the premature death of Marius or Sulla, and the subsequent total collapse of the Roman Republic under pressure from Pontus, Spanish tribes, Germanic tribes, and the Italian allies which would revert the political landscape of the mediterranean back to it's pre-Roman state. This would entail an independent Greece, mercantile free cities dominating the West, and various migrations threatening the inhabitants of coastal areas without a large central authority to address these. It would be a very chaotic time and place for the Mediterranean right on the cusp of the Sarmatian, Parthian, and Germanic waves of expansion that occurred in IOTL's 1st century BCE, and, although it would likely focus on Rome and Greece, the possibilities for creating totally new political amalgamations is limitless.
Clemency of the Guard: Claudius is caught up in the downfall of Sejanus and killed, leaving Caligula as the only Julio-Claudian left by the time of Tiberius' death. This total lack of any other acceptable heir makes the praetorian guard less apt to assassinate Caligula, and he is able to reign uninterrupted for much longer. It would either end in an alt-Caligula being assassinated (sparking civil war) or a long and prosperous reign for him, with a few hijinks in the meantime. Caligula is either succeeded by a natural son or by one of his nephews by his sisters (a Cassius Longinus, Marcus Lepidus, Junius Silanus, or even OTL's Nero).
To the Strongest: The premature death of Hadrian in the second Jewish War leaves the issue of succession very open-ended. The death of Trajan is followed by a Hellenistic-style period of civil wars, presaging the crisis of the third century with lots of bloodshed, inflation, disease, and other exciting stuff.
Sins of the Fathers: This would probably be the hardest one to research, because it would involve the early death of Constantine, which would have huge ramifications for world history and it would concentrate heavily on the socio-political developments of religion, army organization, and provincial administration in the late empire. The tetrarchy would last a little bit longer than IOTL by being divided between the dynasties of Maximian and Galerius, thus eliminating the marginalized sons that imploded OTL's tetrarchy.
Alaric's Wake: This is my next timeline in the works, involving the rise of Stilicho as a full emperor and member of the Theodosian dynasty. Stilicho would be succeeded by Eucherius, then by Constantius II, and his heirs would be in constant struggle with the house of Theodosius in the East as the German nobility of the West gradually took over the state in the same way that provincial soldiers did during the third century crisis.
And a dozen other TL's that only exist in one-sentence fragments in my notes dealing with the premature death/longer life of various Roman imperial figures from Augustus to Ricimer. A couple of my favorites are: In this Comedy of Life (the premature death of Augustus in 44 or 23 BCE), Partner in All my Labors (Sejanus becomes emperor), Blood of the Triumvirs (the Pisonian conspiracy succeeds), The Gallic Terror (Verginius Rufus becomes emperor), and To Overcome the Proud in War (Otho beats Vitellius)
I've even dabbled with non-Roman TLs in the past. Most of these are pretty run-of-the-mill and cliche, and they have scarcely any development beyond a brief description because I eventually settled on Roman history as my primary area of interest.
Children of Mars: This is less of an alternate history than a historical thought experiment. The traditional history of the archaic/regnal period of Rome is well-known, but almost certainly fictional and even more recent events, even after the Gallic sack of Rome, are likely very inaccurate, or at least embellished. This TL would break down the development of Rome's institutions (the senate, assemblies, magistracies, laws, etc) in a narrative with well-known characters (Brutus, Cincinnatus, etc) who bear little or no resemblance to the traditional characters. This narrative would have an interesting twist on the various innovations of the Roman state such as a later establishment of the consulship than is traditionally assumed, a gradual rather than abrupt abolition of the monarchy, and a much more intense patrician-plebeian struggle involving the various nearby Latin and Italian tribes.
A Desert Called Peace: The POD for this would either be the premature death of Marius or Sulla, and the subsequent total collapse of the Roman Republic under pressure from Pontus, Spanish tribes, Germanic tribes, and the Italian allies which would revert the political landscape of the mediterranean back to it's pre-Roman state. This would entail an independent Greece, mercantile free cities dominating the West, and various migrations threatening the inhabitants of coastal areas without a large central authority to address these. It would be a very chaotic time and place for the Mediterranean right on the cusp of the Sarmatian, Parthian, and Germanic waves of expansion that occurred in IOTL's 1st century BCE, and, although it would likely focus on Rome and Greece, the possibilities for creating totally new political amalgamations is limitless.
Clemency of the Guard: Claudius is caught up in the downfall of Sejanus and killed, leaving Caligula as the only Julio-Claudian left by the time of Tiberius' death. This total lack of any other acceptable heir makes the praetorian guard less apt to assassinate Caligula, and he is able to reign uninterrupted for much longer. It would either end in an alt-Caligula being assassinated (sparking civil war) or a long and prosperous reign for him, with a few hijinks in the meantime. Caligula is either succeeded by a natural son or by one of his nephews by his sisters (a Cassius Longinus, Marcus Lepidus, Junius Silanus, or even OTL's Nero).
To the Strongest: The premature death of Hadrian in the second Jewish War leaves the issue of succession very open-ended. The death of Trajan is followed by a Hellenistic-style period of civil wars, presaging the crisis of the third century with lots of bloodshed, inflation, disease, and other exciting stuff.
Sins of the Fathers: This would probably be the hardest one to research, because it would involve the early death of Constantine, which would have huge ramifications for world history and it would concentrate heavily on the socio-political developments of religion, army organization, and provincial administration in the late empire. The tetrarchy would last a little bit longer than IOTL by being divided between the dynasties of Maximian and Galerius, thus eliminating the marginalized sons that imploded OTL's tetrarchy.
Alaric's Wake: This is my next timeline in the works, involving the rise of Stilicho as a full emperor and member of the Theodosian dynasty. Stilicho would be succeeded by Eucherius, then by Constantius II, and his heirs would be in constant struggle with the house of Theodosius in the East as the German nobility of the West gradually took over the state in the same way that provincial soldiers did during the third century crisis.
And a dozen other TL's that only exist in one-sentence fragments in my notes dealing with the premature death/longer life of various Roman imperial figures from Augustus to Ricimer. A couple of my favorites are: In this Comedy of Life (the premature death of Augustus in 44 or 23 BCE), Partner in All my Labors (Sejanus becomes emperor), Blood of the Triumvirs (the Pisonian conspiracy succeeds), The Gallic Terror (Verginius Rufus becomes emperor), and To Overcome the Proud in War (Otho beats Vitellius)
I've even dabbled with non-Roman TLs in the past. Most of these are pretty run-of-the-mill and cliche, and they have scarcely any development beyond a brief description because I eventually settled on Roman history as my primary area of interest.
- Sea Peoples establishing settled states. Basically a blank slate for me to do whatever I want with history
- No Macedonian conquest of Persia and subsequently no Hellenistic period. Or alternatively:
- Alexander's Empire stays together after his death (or at least the core parts of it like Macedon and Anatolia)
- No Islam
- The Mongols do to Europe what they did to China
- US keeps the articles of confederation
- Premature death of Karl Marx and the impact on European political thought
- Resurgent Ottoman Empire in the 19th century
- Yellowstone supervolcano erupts at some point (maybe during the ACW) and the implications for North America and the world
- My pet project "Fortune Favors the Cold" where Neanderthals and Homo erectus survive to the present day
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The 1688 ‘verse (working title)
Via diplomatic maneuvering,the Glorious Revolution is averted....for a while. The Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution get earlier starts,and everything is changed. Highlights:
Via diplomatic maneuvering,the Glorious Revolution is averted....for a while. The Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution get earlier starts,and everything is changed. Highlights:
- A branch of the House of Oldenburg takes the British Throne in a bloodless Revolution c.1714,and rules the UK to this day
- The Dogeship of Venice survives to the present,becoming more of a nominal office as the years go by
- America becomes independent in the mid-1750s,after a brief-ish war. Canada joins the 13 colonies in union. Benjamin Franklin is elected as our first President in 1768.
- By now,the North American Union (alt!US) spans from Baffin Bay to Gran Colombia. It is still governed from DC
- All kinds of reforms avert the French Revolution. Napoleon di Buonaparte becomes a general and fights all over the Med region
- Japan is ‘opened up’ earlier,around 1835
- Slavery is abolished in the British Empire and NAU in the late 1810s. An 1855 attempt to bring slavery back results in alt!ACW. Lincoln ITTL is best known for presiding over Reconstruction
- NAU slowly becomes multiparty
- (various shiz goes down,including Russia becoming a strictly constitutional monarchy. Even that goes away in the ‘30s)
- First World War (European War) in 1911-1915. Not sure about alliances or circumstances. Ends essentially status quo antebellum.
- Cars in the 1860s,radio around 1875,talkies around 1890,TV by 1925 at the latest. Langley becomes first heavier-than-air pilot in 1881.
- First black POTUS is Blanche Bruce bc earlier equality of freedmen
- The Chinese monarchy fades away about 1890
- (insert different colonization here,perhaps just economic imperialism)
- WW2 (Eurasian War) 1937-1944 roughly. The Bellicist Movement takes the place of most fascism.
- !civil rights movement in ‘20s - Hispanics,Japanese,Middle Easterners
- First satellites about 1952,first humans in space about 1957
- Prime Minister JRRT
- African wars against a fundamentalist Christian movement take the place of Vietnam in the ‘80s
- Most social movements,counterculture,etc are ahead of OTL
- First woman president in 1997,
Nancy McKeon
- By 2019 people have set foot on the moons of Jupiter.
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I have...many ideas really, but I just started posting this one today!!! D:
In seriousness, as I've mentioned in another thread, I had two in mind (now gone up to three at this point.)
- Czechoslovak Kingdom TL: Basically, during WWI, the powers that be choose to establish a separate kingdom, carrying on the legacy of the Kingdom of Bohemia to the present day. Never attempted because finding a King for Czechoslovakia is harder than it looks, especially one that isn't a Habsburg, Hohenzollern...just a German in general...
- Consulate of the Sea: John, Prince of Girona, and Ferdinand II of Aragon's son with Germaine of Foix survives infancy. As such, Castile still becomes a Habsburg Kingdom, while Aragon remains under the Trastamaras. Hilarity ensues obviously, as now Aragon serves as one-part buffer and one-part 16th-century Mexico as they're now so far from God, so wedged between an ascendent Castile and France.
- Dancing With the Angels: Was going to be my take on @Emperor Constantine 's TL which I kinda fell in love with really, its an old TL, its Reign of the Miracle King. Aka a PoD where Charles X, in one of his last acts as King (while the July Revolution was still going on) sends the news of his and his eldest son's abdication, and defers the throne to the ten-year old Henri, Count of Chambord thanks to the intervention of Marie-Therese, the sole surviving child of Louis XVI. Kinda been wanting to try my hand on it, kinda want to back off on it so I can do something original first. I dunno when that'll be, chances are depends on if I ever have the itch to and when I wanna take a break from the TL I just started...
...and yes, it totally is an Ace Combat 6 reference, go figure.
In seriousness, as I've mentioned in another thread, I had two in mind (now gone up to three at this point.)
- Czechoslovak Kingdom TL: Basically, during WWI, the powers that be choose to establish a separate kingdom, carrying on the legacy of the Kingdom of Bohemia to the present day. Never attempted because finding a King for Czechoslovakia is harder than it looks, especially one that isn't a Habsburg, Hohenzollern...just a German in general...
- Consulate of the Sea: John, Prince of Girona, and Ferdinand II of Aragon's son with Germaine of Foix survives infancy. As such, Castile still becomes a Habsburg Kingdom, while Aragon remains under the Trastamaras. Hilarity ensues obviously, as now Aragon serves as one-part buffer and one-part 16th-century Mexico as they're now so far from God, so wedged between an ascendent Castile and France.
- Dancing With the Angels: Was going to be my take on @Emperor Constantine 's TL which I kinda fell in love with really, its an old TL, its Reign of the Miracle King. Aka a PoD where Charles X, in one of his last acts as King (while the July Revolution was still going on) sends the news of his and his eldest son's abdication, and defers the throne to the ten-year old Henri, Count of Chambord thanks to the intervention of Marie-Therese, the sole surviving child of Louis XVI. Kinda been wanting to try my hand on it, kinda want to back off on it so I can do something original first. I dunno when that'll be, chances are depends on if I ever have the itch to and when I wanna take a break from the TL I just started...
...and yes, it totally is an Ace Combat 6 reference, go figure.
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All ones I plan on getting around to eventually (in order of fleshed-out-ness):
Vandal Kingdom: Belisarius is defeated at Ad Decimum and the Kingdom of the Vandals and the Alans continues on
Kingdom of America: Successful Prussian Scheme
1950s GoT: Game of Thrones re-imagined as 50s mobsters
Medieval Avengers: The MCU re-imagined in the middle ages
Vandal Kingdom: Belisarius is defeated at Ad Decimum and the Kingdom of the Vandals and the Alans continues on
Kingdom of America: Successful Prussian Scheme
1950s GoT: Game of Thrones re-imagined as 50s mobsters
Medieval Avengers: The MCU re-imagined in the middle ages
The Great Experiment
A TL where the United States collapses as a result of fallout from the Constitutional convention, breaking up into several smaller states. Eventually five major American states emerge, New York, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Virginia and Carolina. They compete brutally with one another in a series of wars, however they are kept largely out of the Louisiana territory by a British conquest of the region. By the year 1900 these American states are forming a tangled web of alliances and engaging in raging arms races that would do the Europeans proud and threaten to send to world crashing into a war the likes of which the world can scarcely comprehend.
Honestly its a cool idea, but one that others have done before so I would not want to tread over old ground by making it, and it would require far more research than I am currently willing to devote to the project.
A TL where the United States collapses as a result of fallout from the Constitutional convention, breaking up into several smaller states. Eventually five major American states emerge, New York, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Virginia and Carolina. They compete brutally with one another in a series of wars, however they are kept largely out of the Louisiana territory by a British conquest of the region. By the year 1900 these American states are forming a tangled web of alliances and engaging in raging arms races that would do the Europeans proud and threaten to send to world crashing into a war the likes of which the world can scarcely comprehend.
Honestly its a cool idea, but one that others have done before so I would not want to tread over old ground by making it, and it would require far more research than I am currently willing to devote to the project.
Many years ago I toyed with the idea of doing a sequel to my "Mr Hughes Goes To War" taking it up to the 1950s. For good or ill I got diverted into other things, and on reflection decided that sequels rarely lived up to the original. So it never got beyond a few notes.
The general drift would have been that economic troubles lead to a rise in political extremism, so that Emperor Karl [1] is obliged to accept Hermann Goering as Chancellor, This leads to a good deal of nastiness, including burglars getting beheaded and many political opponents of the regime being killed, including several thousand Jews. Goering is eventually removed by Emperor Otto V [2] with the support of Prince Lettow-Vorbeck and King Rupprecht of Bavaria, but Karl's name is besmirched by his association with the Goering regime, and his obituaries are highly critical. He dies in Nov 1948, simultaneously with ex-President Charles Evans Hughes, who also comes in for criticism for the lenient peace settlement which enabled Karl to come to power. The New York times editorialises (in a piece entitled "The Two Charles's") about how, had Hughes insisted on the overthrow of the dynasty and the setting up of a democratic republic, Goering would never have come to power and the lives of 10,000 Jews would have been saved. [3]
TTL, the Depression would have come under a Democratic administration, and Alf Landon elected POTUS by the biggest majority in US history. That chapter would have been entitled "Alfred the Great". Another chapter, in which Petain seizes power in 1930s France, would have been "Travail, Famille, Patrie". For the chapter on the rise of anti-Semitism, I had provisionally chosen "The Finger of Suspicion Points at Jew" as a title.
Minor detail. I considered including a chapter in which Karl, on his way to visit a monastery, has a rotten egg thrown at him by a student radical. It misses him but hits Empress Zita. White with fury, Karl turns to the Abbot and asks "Are birch twigs available?" These provided, he proceeds to soundly flog the miscreant with his own imperial hand. For a title, I considered "The Smack of Firm Government". An English newspaper jokingly calls his dynasty the "House of Hapsbirch", and some years later this incident leads to the TTL equivalent of the German-American Bund being nicknamed "Birchers" a term used OTL for the right-wing John Birch Society.
The final part, for which I never picked a title, would involve the Chief Rabbi of the Kingdom of Poland, fuming with rage when he is made late for a conference due to his train being held up at Osweicim. Leaning out of the window, he sees a rusty old sign left against a wall, half concealed by a pile of autumn leaves, and bearing the former German name, "Auschwitz".
He curses Polish inefficiency, for leaving him stranded in some one-horse town that nobody has ever heard of.
[]] Karl I of Austria-Hungary, TTL Emperor of Germany as well.
[2] OTL's Dr Otto Habsburg, who has adopted the numbering of the old Holy Roman Emperors.
[3] There has been no Second World War on this TL.
The general drift would have been that economic troubles lead to a rise in political extremism, so that Emperor Karl [1] is obliged to accept Hermann Goering as Chancellor, This leads to a good deal of nastiness, including burglars getting beheaded and many political opponents of the regime being killed, including several thousand Jews. Goering is eventually removed by Emperor Otto V [2] with the support of Prince Lettow-Vorbeck and King Rupprecht of Bavaria, but Karl's name is besmirched by his association with the Goering regime, and his obituaries are highly critical. He dies in Nov 1948, simultaneously with ex-President Charles Evans Hughes, who also comes in for criticism for the lenient peace settlement which enabled Karl to come to power. The New York times editorialises (in a piece entitled "The Two Charles's") about how, had Hughes insisted on the overthrow of the dynasty and the setting up of a democratic republic, Goering would never have come to power and the lives of 10,000 Jews would have been saved. [3]
TTL, the Depression would have come under a Democratic administration, and Alf Landon elected POTUS by the biggest majority in US history. That chapter would have been entitled "Alfred the Great". Another chapter, in which Petain seizes power in 1930s France, would have been "Travail, Famille, Patrie". For the chapter on the rise of anti-Semitism, I had provisionally chosen "The Finger of Suspicion Points at Jew" as a title.
Minor detail. I considered including a chapter in which Karl, on his way to visit a monastery, has a rotten egg thrown at him by a student radical. It misses him but hits Empress Zita. White with fury, Karl turns to the Abbot and asks "Are birch twigs available?" These provided, he proceeds to soundly flog the miscreant with his own imperial hand. For a title, I considered "The Smack of Firm Government". An English newspaper jokingly calls his dynasty the "House of Hapsbirch", and some years later this incident leads to the TTL equivalent of the German-American Bund being nicknamed "Birchers" a term used OTL for the right-wing John Birch Society.
The final part, for which I never picked a title, would involve the Chief Rabbi of the Kingdom of Poland, fuming with rage when he is made late for a conference due to his train being held up at Osweicim. Leaning out of the window, he sees a rusty old sign left against a wall, half concealed by a pile of autumn leaves, and bearing the former German name, "Auschwitz".
He curses Polish inefficiency, for leaving him stranded in some one-horse town that nobody has ever heard of.
[]] Karl I of Austria-Hungary, TTL Emperor of Germany as well.
[2] OTL's Dr Otto Habsburg, who has adopted the numbering of the old Holy Roman Emperors.
[3] There has been no Second World War on this TL.
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Now THAT sounds like an interesting fandom timeline!
Years ago during a depressed/angry period I wrote out in paper form, but never committed to computer, a very gruesome timeline 'inspired' by my disenchantment with libertarianism and my rage against the Tea Party. Full disclosure -- for a while I was drifting towards libertarianism, but then I actually read some of the libertarian forums and I was like: what the actual f**k?
In the timeline, the Libertarian Party, realizing it's never going to win an election, takes power by force, using its copious guns. They also change their motto to WWAFFL(We Want A Fucking Free Lunch), to symbolize how they want all the benefits that come with society without the obligations. There was genocide all over the place. For example, they cover Mexico with toxic chemicals to exterminate all life there -- preventing illegal immigration! Then they reverse the ban on slavery, and raid Africa for cheap labor! (Libertarians in general are not fans of Lincoln, routinely comparing him to Stalin and Hitler). They also initiate "Goodwill Hunting", in which homeless people who used Goodwill are hunted down and murdered since they are poor and don't matter! Superhero comics are put into public bonfires, Nazi style, because the libertarians are repulsed by extragovernmental powerful people actually using these powers for good! They destroy the Statue of Liberty, disgusted by the fact it doesn't charge an entrance fee!
It was a sort of therapeutic, but once my hateboner subsided I realized that if I had ever put up a single sentence of this as a 'serious' timeline, I would have been banned so fast it would make my head spin.
In the timeline, the Libertarian Party, realizing it's never going to win an election, takes power by force, using its copious guns. They also change their motto to WWAFFL(We Want A Fucking Free Lunch), to symbolize how they want all the benefits that come with society without the obligations. There was genocide all over the place. For example, they cover Mexico with toxic chemicals to exterminate all life there -- preventing illegal immigration! Then they reverse the ban on slavery, and raid Africa for cheap labor! (Libertarians in general are not fans of Lincoln, routinely comparing him to Stalin and Hitler). They also initiate "Goodwill Hunting", in which homeless people who used Goodwill are hunted down and murdered since they are poor and don't matter! Superhero comics are put into public bonfires, Nazi style, because the libertarians are repulsed by extragovernmental powerful people actually using these powers for good! They destroy the Statue of Liberty, disgusted by the fact it doesn't charge an entrance fee!
It was a sort of therapeutic, but once my hateboner subsided I realized that if I had ever put up a single sentence of this as a 'serious' timeline, I would have been banned so fast it would make my head spin.
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Several if one only had more time.
-Charels V & I leaves the Burgundian parts to Ferdinand and the Austrian Habsburgs, as being part of the HRE. This gives the Habsburgs an open road through the Prince-Bishops that now have to let the Austrians pass where OTL they could block the Spanish. Thus walking into the Netherlands along the river Rhine, quickly crushing the rebellion again. Also this shifts the balance of power more towards the Emperor away from the electors.
-1848 Hilarity insures when Billy clears the streets of Berlin with a bit to much grapeshot and the local regiments chase the Guard units and Royal family out of the city and then the country. Then FJ goes to Frankfurt, being 18 he gets convinced to go by a cute girl, and accepts the crown from the gutter, passes Hungary to Max. ect. ect.
-Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands and Princes Juliana go for a lovely low-key personal visit to A-H. Get invited by FF to travel down to Sarajevo and see the troops. Boom goes the grenade and not only does FJ lose his heir, but the Netherlands loses the entire royal family. Fun is had in the Hague when they realize that their worst nightmare has come true as the new King is a full on German.
With the Netherlands in the war Liege and Antwerp fall almost immediately. German Army not only get two more Corps, for their right flank. But more importantly the railroads, rolling-stock, rivers, and barges to make their logistical constraints mostly disappear.
Small DEF (2000 Marines plus assorted units from the Fortress troops that are now no longer required.) shows up on the Serbian border to avenge the Queen and little Princess. As there is no room on Northern Serbian border get deployed in the areas reserved for A-H 2. Armee, that went straight for Galicia, and manage to cross Danube against limited opposition.
Indian & ANZAC troops get diverted to DEI to get mauled by the veteran Dutch troops. Dutch Indian Navy together with German East Asia squadron raise merry hop with Entente shipping and suddenly too small RN Squadron. Requiring transfer of several pre-Dreads and assorted RN vessels to clear the Singapore Strait and ...
-Charels V & I leaves the Burgundian parts to Ferdinand and the Austrian Habsburgs, as being part of the HRE. This gives the Habsburgs an open road through the Prince-Bishops that now have to let the Austrians pass where OTL they could block the Spanish. Thus walking into the Netherlands along the river Rhine, quickly crushing the rebellion again. Also this shifts the balance of power more towards the Emperor away from the electors.
-1848 Hilarity insures when Billy clears the streets of Berlin with a bit to much grapeshot and the local regiments chase the Guard units and Royal family out of the city and then the country. Then FJ goes to Frankfurt, being 18 he gets convinced to go by a cute girl, and accepts the crown from the gutter, passes Hungary to Max. ect. ect.
-Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands and Princes Juliana go for a lovely low-key personal visit to A-H. Get invited by FF to travel down to Sarajevo and see the troops. Boom goes the grenade and not only does FJ lose his heir, but the Netherlands loses the entire royal family. Fun is had in the Hague when they realize that their worst nightmare has come true as the new King is a full on German.
With the Netherlands in the war Liege and Antwerp fall almost immediately. German Army not only get two more Corps, for their right flank. But more importantly the railroads, rolling-stock, rivers, and barges to make their logistical constraints mostly disappear.
Small DEF (2000 Marines plus assorted units from the Fortress troops that are now no longer required.) shows up on the Serbian border to avenge the Queen and little Princess. As there is no room on Northern Serbian border get deployed in the areas reserved for A-H 2. Armee, that went straight for Galicia, and manage to cross Danube against limited opposition.
Indian & ANZAC troops get diverted to DEI to get mauled by the veteran Dutch troops. Dutch Indian Navy together with German East Asia squadron raise merry hop with Entente shipping and suddenly too small RN Squadron. Requiring transfer of several pre-Dreads and assorted RN vessels to clear the Singapore Strait and ...