Yet another challenge: Have the large scale use of Choppers in WWII

[Clibanarius]

(I'm getting pretty good at these)

So, how would you go about having Choppers used on a large scale by the Militaries of WWII?

And how would history be affected?

 

[hefajstos]

Pass a law requiring registration of all modified motorcycles, and requisition as necessary.

 

[Blackfox5]

I don't think you can feasibly get large scale use of helicopters in WWII. The technology was too new for serious use in wartime. The Germans had some models in actual production in WWII. but they didn't amount to anything. They were exotic curiosities. Too much R&D would be needed for them to be useful enough to the point where mass scale production was done.

If these technical constraints could be overcome, I don't think we would see any attack helicopters. I think we would see MASH style helicopters for emergency evacuation ala the Korean War which may see better survival rates for soldiers in combat. I only see the US, UK, and Germany being able to pull that off. There would have to be a lot of other innovation in combat medicine equipment and doctrine though for it to be worth it.

Another use would be aerial reconaissance for certain kinds of ASW ships. Might be a pad on certain escort vessels or perhaps even merchant ships themselves. This would be of primary use to the US and UK.

There might be limited operations for commandos or other special forces, again fairly limited to the US, UK, and Germany. Would probably be more useful in theatres like Burma than in Europe. But there is potential anti-partisan use for the Germans.

Overall, I think any practical helicopters in the WWII era would be not have any real impact in the outcome of the war, but with some benefits to the UK and US in terms of ASW.

 

[Peabody-Martini]

The first helicopter rescue happened in April, 1944 when a Sikorsky R-4 rescued a downed pilot in Burma. A little research reveals that helicopters were used extensively in the CBI theater from March 1944 until the the end of the war for medivac and SAR. For some reason there is no evidence that helicopters were ever used in the European theater aside from a few German prototypes.

 

[OneUp]

The first helicopter rescue happened in April, 1944 when a Sikorsky R-4 rescued a downed pilot in Burma. A little research reveals that helicopters were used extensively in the CBI theater from March 1944 until the the end of the war for medivac and SAR. For some reason there is no evidence that helicopters were ever used in the European theater aside from a few German prototypes.

Probably because of the proliferation of AAA among the Wehrmacht and Allies, kinda hard for choppers to rescue people when being hit with 12.7 (50 cal) or 20 mm bullets.

 

[TheMann]

Have Igor Sikorsky start working on his helicopter technology ten years earlier, thus producing the R-4 in the early 1930s. The R-4 and successor helicopters prove to be such useful tools for the Army and Navy as well as for civilian usage that technology for them advances rapidly. By the outbreak of WWII, the H-19 Chickasaw is under development, and the utility of helicopters in rescuing downed pilots and inserting people behind enemy lines proves useful. Early on in WWII, the British start buying and then license-building the Chickasaw, and they develop improved versions of it for anti-submarine duties. The Bell 47, Kaman HH-43 and Pilasecki H-21 are also in use in various guises when war breaks out.

The 47 is often used for patrol and search and rescue duties, but the Huskie, Chickasaw and Shawnee are used extensively in many roles, from amphibious assault to search and rescue, special forces insertion and support duties. Large number of all three types brave massive anti-aircraft fire to help take down German fortifications on D-Day, making the helicopter idea well known. Their usage in fast-moving operations proves useful in several arenas other than D-Day, from Guadalcanal all the way to the end of the war.

 

[ScorchedLight]

The thing is, a practical military helicopter kinda requires a turbine engine. There are some that use IC engines, but the performance is nowhere near.

 

[Peabody-Martini]

In Europe use of AA against small aircraft such as the Piper Cub near the front lines was considered a nearly suicidal act, in that it invited a 155 mm response. A low flying helicopter would have likely fallen into the same category.

As for engines the radial engines of the era as was used in helicopters such as the H-5 were up to the task.

 

[TheMann]

The thing is, a practical military helicopter kinda requires a turbine engine. There are some that use IC engines, but the performance is nowhere near.

The Wright R-1820 (the engine used in the Pilasecki H-21) and Pratt and Whitney R-1340 (from the Chickasaw) were adequate for its duties. Turboshafts can make for better power, but those are out of reach for WWII era.

 

[TheMann]

In Europe use of AA against small aircraft such as the Piper Cub near the front lines was considered a nearly suicidal act, in that it invited a 155 mm response. A low flying helicopter would have likely fallen into the same category.

I think there would be times where that wasn't true, but you do have a point there. You aren't gonna give away positions that easily, and artillery guns have much more range than a AA weapon, even a big one like a 88mm flak gun.

 

[phx1138]

The thing is, a practical military helicopter kinda requires a turbine engine.

Since when? I can picture FA-61s being troop transports & improved Fl-282s (with around 500hp radials & rocket pods) as close support types. I also imagine R-4s (with 500-600hp R1340s instead of 240hp Franklins) carrying Mk24 FIDO homing torpedoes & operating on ASW from flats on all tankers & bulk carriers (in place of TSR Stringbags & Hurricats).

The Wright R-1820 (the engine used in the Pilasecki H-21) and Pratt and Whitney R-1340 (from the Chickasaw) were adequate for its duties. Turboshafts can make for better power, but those are out of reach for WWII era.

Quite right. Even some of the smaller-displacement engines (R670s?) produced adequate power for helos, when they weren't enough for fighters.

 

[Just Leo]

Igor's first helicopter was tested in 1909. Moving it ten years earlier would render the engine unavailable. It was co-axial and it fell over.

His S-55 was operated in Korea in 1953 to see if a tactical doctrine for their use could be established.

Tactical doctrine was established by 1962 when the Piasecki H-21 tandem rotor was operated in Viet Nam, and provided the United States with the first of many KIA's to come.

Although not at all as glamorous a concept, engine development is often a stumbling block in the plausibility of earlier developments of all kinds. Engine developments are the result of various technologies being developed to a point, stirred up by an engineering genius, and years of development and testing. Hard to rush, easy to side-track and delay.

 

[Nik]

Tip jets.

As I suggested in the other helicopter thread, perhaps tip-jets would be the solution to the engine problem.

The fuel economy is poor, but the lift should be adequate given triple or quad-bladed rotors. I'd expect the helicopters would be compound, so have a conventional piston engine for propulsion. Think of them as evolved 'jump gyros', which were around in the mid 1930s...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogyro

My guess is they'd light up the tip-jets for take off and hovering, fly as an auto-gyro the rest of the time...

 

[Just Leo]

What type of tipjets? Back to engine development .

 

[Peabody-Martini]

Tip jets would be impractical and unnecessary. The helicopters from the forties all used air cooled piston engines. Turbine engines which were a product of the fifties are needed if you want a helicopter gunship like the early Cobra attack choppers of Vietnam fame. For medivac, search and rescue or recon the fields where the helicopter proved its worth, the Sikorsky R-4 and the Bell H-13 Sioux used 4 or 6 cylinder 200-250hp engines in these fields. The larger Sikorsky H-5 and H-19 both used Pratt & Whitney radial engines.