XXth C: Discussion Thread

[reformer]

April 1933: At Frederich Hanslow's strong encouragement, New Mexico re-aranges is election laws to provide for a devided electoral college.

April 1975: Hayloft, trying to secure political future, leaves his newfound Individualist Party, but starts to campaign for small governmen policieis nationally. He creates the Council for the Freedom of Man, which gains severall hundred thousand members very quickly with strong chapters in most colleges.

July 1975: In an attempt to avoide future splits in the party, President Lodge names Hayloft as his new Secretary of Labor. He advocates a policy of non-interventionism, while at the same time personally working with bussinesses to find private solutions with unions ironically in an effort to avoid government involvement.

December 1976: Welles announces that he intends to keep Hayloft on as Labor Secretary.

October 1977: Hayloft, working with former political rival Senator Parell authors the Hayloft-Parell Labor Reform bill, with at the same time undoes labor and bussiness restrictions. For once all sides appear to be happy, and the economy is given a small boost.

February 1979: Welles and Hayloft come to head when Hayloft tries to stop states from taking pro-labor meassures at the exspense of busssiness. Democrats like Welles were fine with a smaller national government notion, but cannot go along with the inclusion of small sate government motives. Haloft publicly quits, with quite a spectacle, and is declared by millions of college studets the logical sucessor to Quentin Roosevelt as a symbol for Individualists.

May 1979: Hayloft is encoraged by his collegues in the Council for the Freedom of Man to run for president. Hayloft, being having a very exuberant personality, loves the notion.

July 1980: Hayloft and fellow Individualists hold a convenetion in San Antonio. Hayloft is nominated as president, and former Texas Lt. Governor Eduardo Santana is nominated as vice president. The inclusion of a hispanic candidate improves the already strong pro Individualist movement in the southwest.

November 1980: Hayloft comes in a clear thrd place win, with 11% of the popular vote, and electoral votes from Chihua, and one from New Mexico.

 

[reformer]

Could you explain the Individualist Party? I lost track of what happened to the parties ITTL, but I don't remember the Individualists at all.

They have been tossed about alot, by are largely a new party.

Individualists are small government types, similar to OTL libertarians. QR coins term, and makes alot of enemies during his term. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are moderately pro-large government (less so then OTL Democrats, more so then OTL Republicans, with the Republicans ressembling moderate Rockefellor Republicans and the Democrats being more pro-states rights but with many big government governors), so there's deffinately space in the system for the fringe. Just as the Populists are radicals in the Democratic Party, Individualists are radicals in the Republican Party.

 

[reformer]

Why can't we retcon? I know your very adament about that, but why? I mean, every soap opera does it.

 

[Glen]

Why can't we retcon? I know your very adament about that, but why? I mean, every soap opera does it.

Two reasons. First, it was one of the rules that was established from the beginning, so that we would have stability so people could continue writing more events and so we wouldn't waste time and energy rehashing the same events again and again.

What you can do, if you so choose, is to write your own divergent XXth Century timeline. Maybe call it the Reformed XXth Century...

 

[reformer]

Two reasons. First, it was one of the rules that was established from the beginning, so that we would have stability so people could continue writing more events and so we wouldn't waste time and energy rehashing the same events again and again.

What you can do, if you so choose, is to write your own divergent XXth Century timeline. Maybe call it the Reformed XXth Century...

I understand why some events can't be removed, they're too engrained, but why not let us do some cleaning up of things unwanted? So there is tradition, I'm ok with that, but out of god knows how many events we have, there are only 5 or 6 that probably should be changed.

 

[Glen]

I understand why some events can't be removed, they're too engrained, but why not let us do some cleaning up of things unwanted? So there is tradition, I'm ok with that, but out of god knows how many events we have, there are only 5 or 6 that probably should be changed.

List your 5 or 6. I'm curious to see what you come up with. However, I make no promises that any will be changed. But I am curious to see what you come up with.

 

[Nicole]

Look, what is so bad about the few Kennedys? They're not even that important, in the grand scheme of things.

 

[reformer]

Look, what is so bad about the few Kennedys? They're not even that important, in the grand scheme of things.

Well, we'eve developed an all things considered pretty original time line, and the Kennedys are just an uncessary blip into clichedom. Now powerful Roosevelts also fit into that category, as does Hitler the painter, but I can live with thoes, it just seems like Kennedy is there for the sake of being there.

Six. . . .well I overdid Elihu Root, he would have been a somewhat better president, another mistake I made is that I have to show Ballinger as more progressive, as it stands right now he makes no sense, replace the Kennedys with another family, don't make QR governor first, and I agree with Glen- the post global war killings are a little off the wall, I mean Perd did amazing things for the time line, but there's a limit, oh, and I'm not sure who submitted them, but there are a handful of Bush events that play out very similar to OTL, if you, whoever the reader is sumbitted them, I'm sorry if I'm being to harsh.

So with these few changes, nothing major happens, Root is skrwed over more by economic chance then by screwball politics, Ballinger and the Equality League are more coherent, QR is a true darkhorse, the Kennedy events just reflect a different family, we wouldn't have a detailed history of a minor oddly placed amasador to Romania, and, well, I guess changing Afghanistan et all would be a pretty major difference.

I mean, I can live without the changes. I'm not going to fight for these to hell and gone. We just have a great TL here with such a small small small number of kinks.

Oh, and Glen, I promise I won't make this into a big issue.

Did you look over the Juliet Lodge vs. Hayloft events?

 

[Tom Veil]

Regarding the Bush family: I read over the Bush entries again, and as long as we don't add to them, I think they're harmless. Other than Prescott Sr. becoming a senator, none of the Bushes do anything of consequence (mediocre baseball player; kidnapped oil exec), so they're only in the TL because a reader from OTL would be curious to find out what happend to them in XXth.

 

[reformer]

Regarding the Bush family: I read over the Bush entries again, and as long as we don't add to them, I think they're harmless. Other than Prescott Sr. becoming a senator, none of the Bushes do anything of consequence (mediocre baseball player; kidnapped oil exec), so they're only in the TL because a reader from OTL would be curious to find out what happend to them in XXth.

Then all is well.

Any objections to my Massachusetts political entries? Yes, I am going somewhere with them.

 

[reformer]

August 2s 1949: Juliet Cabot Lodge, daughter of Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. is born.

June 5 1974: Juliet Cabot Lodge graduates top of her class at Harvard Law School.

Summer 1973: Democrats begin to gain influence in urban areas in the north east where formerly they had little power, arguing that a large federal government was simply less practicle then large state governments. The movement is led by Jack Darn, a self made millionaire executive with near moviestar looks.

August 1974: Juliet Cabot Lodge, barily of age and newly graduated tries to get the nomination as US congressmen. Despite her father's name, she fails to defeat a popular incumbent. She immediately rebounds and enters into a disputed race for State Reppresentative in a district largerly dominated by Boston college students with an outgoing incumbent. The campaign recieves national attention when Tom Hayloft, a young popular Anthropology Professeur at Harvard and active Individualist challenges her nomination. College students from around the country donate money towardes Hayloft, but Lodge uses her father's influence to still gain the nomination. Local Restaurant owner Ted Parell wins the Democratic nomination. He is the owner and priopriater of a popular local restaurant, which would in normall situations be a logical stepping stones to such a low level possition, but he seemed overwhelmed against such publicized candidates.

August 24 1974: Parell appears on an interview on NBC, and impresses the nation with his good humour and unique insight. He criticizes the lopsided uneven agenda of the Republican Party, calling for the need of stronger states rights to coincide with the different needs of different states. He becomes a figurehead for a new Democratic movement.

September 1974: Hayloft announces that he will be running as an Individualist, and uses his considerable funds to guarantee balot acess as potential victory.

November 1974: Hayloft comes in with 36% of the vote, Parell with 32%, and Lodge with 31%. Hayloft quickly organizes the official Individualist Party, serving as chairmen. Democrats for the first time over half a century win the majority in the Massachusetts legislature, along with a Democrat Governor, Jack Darn.

March 1975: Second term Massachusetts Senator James Cabot (distantly related to the Cabot Lodges) resigns for health reasons. The Legislature appoints Ted Parell Senator.

Wait, sorry, I made a mistake here, the 1976 event happens in 1974, and the 1977 event happens in '75

 

[reformer]

Glen, Tom, Imajin, et all, other then the Kennedy thing, which I can live with, the other events can be dealt with. I'll slightly retcon the Quentin events with events around them. Sorry, so sorry about the fuss.

 

[Glen]

Bump
Bump
Bump

 

[reformer]

302 pages. . .. 302 pages. . . this has become almost too huge to fathom.

 

[Aozhouhuaren]

302 pages. . .. 302 pages. . . this has become almost too huge to fathom.

It could have been huger, I love the Timeline from what I've glanced through so far, but I notice a lot of relevant information missing in the latter stages such as election results, minor conflicts, political and social changes, is this a personal decision, were a lot events cut out or were such events never offered for opinions. I'm just curious.

 

[Glen]

It could have been huger, I love the Timeline from what I've glanced through so far, but I notice a lot of relevant information missing in the latter stages such as election results, minor conflicts, political and social changes, is this a personal decision, were a lot events cut out or were such events never offered for opinions. I'm just curious.

The latter years need more fleshing out. If you look in the Shared Worlds subforum Collaborative Projects, you will find that we are still accepting draft submissions to the timeline, and indeed those years can and will eventually be fleshed out.

Why not come and contribute!

 

[Aozhouhuaren]

The latter years need more fleshing out. If you look in the Shared Worlds subforum Collaborative Projects, you will find that we are still accepting draft submissions to the timeline, and indeed those years can and will eventually be fleshed out.

Why not come and contribute!

Why not, I'll do my research and I'll read a little bit more of the TL, and I'll try to write something.

I thought that the TL was finished, thats all, but I guess its not?

 

[Glen]

Why not, I'll do my research and I'll read a little bit more of the TL, and I'll try to write something.

I thought that the TL was finished, thats all, but I guess its not?

The timeline is never finished, my friend, never finished....there are plenty of features that be plumped up, as you yourself noted.

We'd like to flesh it out as much as possible. Its presence in Timelines and Scenarios should not be taken as proof that it is finished....

 

[Tom Veil]

I have been reading the modern sections of India: A History by John Keay and I just wanted to say that more than ever I am impressed with the realism of the XXth C TL in establishing Dominion status for India, and for keeping India unitary. From Keay's history, it is quite clear that this was the preferred alternative of most South Asians in OTL, and that Indians and Pakistanis were forced into a more radical stance only after the British committed a series of missteps, ranging from the trivial to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre, that would be very unlikely to be repeated if OTL were played over again.

 

[Glen]

I have been reading the modern sections of India: A History by John Keay and I just wanted to say that more than ever I am impressed with the realism of the XXth C TL in establishing Dominion status for India, and for keeping India unitary. From Keay's history, it is quite clear that this was the preferred alternative of most South Asians in OTL, and that Indians and Pakistanis were forced into a more radical stance only after the British committed a series of missteps, ranging from the trivial to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre, that would be very unlikely to be repeated if OTL were played over again.

Hmmm...an interesting point, and I am glad to hear you found this part of our humble timeline plausible.