The debate about what would happen if France was not treated as one of the big four made me wonder, would it have been plausible than more, or even all of the allied powers would get an occupation zone in germany. A lot more organisational expediture, but it's kind of a reward/gueranty for peace/helping to keep the germans down etc. for all of them? The political consequences could be interresting. What do you think?
WWII: WI more allied powers get an occupation zone in Germany
- Thread starter Starslayer_D
- Start date
Apparently there were a lot more zones than are usually known. Someone posted a map a while a go where it was shown that there were zones for Norway, Denmark, Belgium and IIRC a small one for Luxembourg as well. Of course they did report to the major power in charge of the wider zone but still.
It would take more involvement by the other powers to get them to take part in long-term German occupation. The Allies were a massive coalition of nations fighting together, but only three or four of them were in any position to dictate the post-war map, France being one of them. Canada and the ANZAC were still part of the Commonwealth and deferred to Britain at the time, as did India (which would start pushing more for independence as soon as the war ended, and thus would have its own problems).
Brazil was a mid-level Allied nation, but it joined late in the war and thus had less push, plus it joined mostly as a sign of friendship to the USA and in protest to unrestricted submarine warfare. Once that was over, it had no interest in meddling in European affairs. The rest were either tiny American states with no real reason to invest in European politics what with their own ongoing and future internal problems, or states that were just fulfilling an obligation and wanted the war over and done with as quickly as possible.
The only real candidates were Western and Northern European states like Denmark, Norway, the Benelux, and France, but the Benelux and Norway were not capable of maintaining a long-term occupation on their own, unlike the Americans or the British. France got out relatively unscathed, or at least had a large enough intact army it could use to police its former enemy. All of them needed to rebuild their own countries first, so couldn't have a large occupation zone and generally left supervision to stronger, more wealthy nations like the USA and UK.
Eastern European nations are also out; all of them fell under Soviet influence, and Stalin would not allow any of them any measure of independence. They'd all toe the Soviet line or else. The governments in exile had no power to supervise or manage an occupation as a result, and had to either live in exile or return home and get persecuted/arrested for treason by the new Soviet-aligned governments.
Brazil was a mid-level Allied nation, but it joined late in the war and thus had less push, plus it joined mostly as a sign of friendship to the USA and in protest to unrestricted submarine warfare. Once that was over, it had no interest in meddling in European affairs. The rest were either tiny American states with no real reason to invest in European politics what with their own ongoing and future internal problems, or states that were just fulfilling an obligation and wanted the war over and done with as quickly as possible.
The only real candidates were Western and Northern European states like Denmark, Norway, the Benelux, and France, but the Benelux and Norway were not capable of maintaining a long-term occupation on their own, unlike the Americans or the British. France got out relatively unscathed, or at least had a large enough intact army it could use to police its former enemy. All of them needed to rebuild their own countries first, so couldn't have a large occupation zone and generally left supervision to stronger, more wealthy nations like the USA and UK.
Eastern European nations are also out; all of them fell under Soviet influence, and Stalin would not allow any of them any measure of independence. They'd all toe the Soviet line or else. The governments in exile had no power to supervise or manage an occupation as a result, and had to either live in exile or return home and get persecuted/arrested for treason by the new Soviet-aligned governments.
Taking FDR's attempt to treat the Republic of China as a great power a bit too seriously , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Policemen the Allies decide to give Chiang Kai-shek a German occupation zone... 
I suspect Canada could have gotten one if they had pushed for it. I doubt Canada wanted an occupation zone. My understanding is that in practice the UK initially viewed the Canadians in Germany as part of their occupation forces which later caused a certain amount of friction when the Canadians decided they didn't want take part in occupation duties and wanted to focus on the Cold War.
I also wonder if in hindsight nations such as Greece may now wish they had played a role in the post war occupation of Germany. I will stop now to avoid getting into current politics.
Edit to add: maybe a multi tiered occupation system could have been setup where certain minor powers had a formalized presence in Germany but not the same powers as the big 4 ?
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I once wrote a TL in which Italy is in the Allies. The result is that Austria becomes the Italian occupation zone, as part of a larger bloc of "fascist" powers under Italian leadership, most of those on the Mediterranean Sea.
Grey Wolf
Donor
Taking FDR's attempt to treat the Republic of China as a great power a bit too seriously , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Policemen the Allies decide to give Chiang Kai-shek a German occupation zone...
Dammit, I was gonna suggest that!
Deleted member 94680
Taking FDR's attempt to treat the Republic of China as a great power a bit too seriously , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Policemen the Allies decide to give Chiang Kai-shek a German occupation zone...
Bremen is renamed New Qingdao.
Seriously though, I love the idea of a Brazilian Zone in Germany.
Alcsentre Calanice
Gone Fishin'
Of course Canadians didn't have their own occupation zone, but just like Belgian troops they participated in manning the British zone. The town in which my grandparents live still has a monument commemorating the departure of the Canadian occupation regiment in the 60s.
Taking FDR's attempt to treat the Republic of China as a great power a bit too seriously , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Policemen the Allies decide to give Chiang Kai-shek a German occupation zone...
I remember listening to some German weirdo (a Reichsbürger, our equivalent of Freemen on the Land) who claimed that a Chinese occupation zone was originally planned, but then scrapped in favor of a French one.