Worst general of the 20th century

BlairWitch749

Banned
Its been a while since we had one of these threads, and we have new members, and old ones who have done new research; so please post here your gold silver bronze and dishonorable mentions

Some things to consider and look for in posting your list
1. Complete and utter reckless disregard for the well being of the men under their command
2. Complete and utter reckless disregard for the terrain which they where operating in
3. Squandering immense superiority
4. Throwing troops endlessly into battle even if the cause is lost
5. Being grossly outgeneraled to the point of risking their entire nation by their incompetence
6. Inability to delegate/control freak issues
7. Poor judging of character and picking stupid/crazy subordinates
8. Mindless adhearance to doctrine even if the situation has proven it useless

Gold - This is a hard one, but for now based on new books I have read, this has to go to Nivelle. This fellow had freakishly poor operational security, and a Napoleon complex par excellence. He also completely disregarded the terrain and placed no value on the lives of his men, his vanity, stupidity and bastardy are unrivaled in the 20th century
Silver - Luigi Cadorna... and he was a close second 12 death battles, plus drumhead tribunals and decimation. His strategy could be described roughly as ordering attack after attack, until all the attackers where dead then asking for more. His handeling at Caporetto was also shameful. He destroyed Italy's military reputation more than Benny the moose could have done on his worst day
Bronze - Sarrail.... you have 20 first class French and British divisions, and you get your ass handed to you by the freaking Bulgarian army? To say nothing of the spankings he took in the Argonne before he was packed off
Dishonorable mention - Jalinsky who commanded the Russian northern army group during the assault on East Prussia in 1914. This jackass, sent his men forward without shoes, and mobile field kitchens, because he refused to wait for mobilization to complete. He also recklessly ordered Samsonov forward, even after his flanks where completely in the air, even after he was already partially encircled. A reckless, foolish tool of a commander
 

Blackadder mk 2

Surprised you didn't mention Haig. I don't know what was more stupid, the fact he told them to walk to the Germans or the fact he did this bullshit for four years.
 

HJ Tulp

Blackadder mk 2 said:
Surprised you didn't mention Haig. I don't know what was more stupid, the fact he told them to walk to the Germans or the fact he did this bullshit for four years.
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If you ask me Haig is underrated. Don't get me wrong, I love Blackadder but their depiction of Haig is....lacking.
 
Ming777

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Definitely Haig!

On another note: I also think a thread of the worst defense ministers/secretaries on in order. I've already got 3 in mind...
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
The truth behind Haig strikes me as one of those questions that will never be satisfactorily answered, because opinions on both sides are so strong.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Honestly I feel Cadorna deserves a special Platinum-medal.

He was a special kind of evil and incompetent of which few exist, have existed or will probably exist. A close second for the platinum spot in the 20th century would be the commander of the Galician front on the Austrian side.
 

John Fredrick Parker

Donor
Just noting that only WWI generals have been mentioned so far

So to shake things up -- how about Oliver North? Can anyone say
anything good about Grenada operationally or tactically?
 
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BlairWitch749

Banned
Blackadder mk 2 said:
Surprised you didn't mention Haig. I don't know what was more stupid, the fact he told them to walk to the Germans or the fact he did this bullshit for four years.
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The last time I bashed him it started a flame war

But some notable Haig failures

Somme: Yea lets attack uphill, against a heavily fortified enemy, walking in neat rows. Lets do a weeklong artillery barrage (to give away our intentions) but have 80 percent of our rounds be shrapnel instead of HE and have 1 in 4 be duds so the German 30 foot dugouts are just fine. After we take 60k casualties on the first day and conclusively prove that there is nothing to be gained, lets keep going for months on end; infantry are digits after all

Cambrai: Lets used massed armor! (Good idea) lets attack a narrow part of the front that is hemmed in by canals on both sides (Bad idea) and after our armor is all knocked out by the Germans, lets send the infantry forward in a frontal assault against the strongest portion of the Hindenberg line, have them get torn up and exhausted, then obliterated in a German counterattack that not only erases all the gains but captures the jump off positions and over 100 tanks (Very bad idea)

Third Ypres: Lets attack a fortified position, uphill, in an area with a high water table, in the rainy season, when every single shell hole will fill with water immediately... its ok its only Austrialians and Canadians being sent to their deaths who cares
 

archaeogeek

Banned
John Fredrick Parker said:
Crap -- I think I meant tactically...
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Minimal losses and opposition subdued ;)
(just 4 seals and a bunch of soldiers and the fact that the grenadians were mostly too confused to even resist outside of a few pockets :p - the cubans there were army auxiliary personnel and not frontline combat troops)
 

Neutron

BlairWitch749 said:
Somme: Yea lets attack uphill, against a heavily fortified enemy, walking in neat rows. Lets do a weeklong artillery barrage (to give away our intentions) but have 80 percent of our rounds be shrapnel instead of HE and have 1 in 4 be duds so the German 30 foot dugouts are just fine. After we take 60k casualties on the first day and conclusively prove that there is nothing to be gained, lets keep going for months on end; infantry are digits after all
Click to expand...

Just on this point I'd like to say the uphill bit is less of Haig being at fault more of that the Germans were already looking for defensible positions when they invaded (these positions while would've been better then the ones the French/British had in the end were simple more defnsible from a German perspective). Artillery was actually deemed the only effective thing in that war infact if my recollection is good most casualties were infact inflicted by artillery making it the best weapon, on top of that it was believed to be the only way to remove barbed wire by both sides (though the shells best for this weren't developed untill later). On the points on the duds is that Haig fault really? Or rather the British armaments fault? and perhaps the Governments for not keeping standards up. Also Haig didn't necessarily want the the Somme -though it should be pointed out that some 40 french divisions were intially promised when it was planned- however political pressure from the French and by the British government forced it to go ahead, another point is it did end up fullfilling what became the point -though a very bloody a costly way of doing it- later on by alleviating the pressure on Verdun. Haig was after the war a celebrated hero 700 of his troops attended his funeral and he was considered the man who won the war it was only later that the true destruction of his image began.

Just a quick point on the walking across no mans land how else would to traverse a massive distance carrying full military gear and achieve your objectives? I would like to hear you answers.
 

Neutron

Ming777 said:
However, I still fault him for Third Ypres/Passchendaele!
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Haha don't know enough about it to be honest, just remember the Somme from -what feels like- my long gone school days, so thought i'd bring up that he wasn't as bad as many assume. I wasn't saying he was great though i may look into it some more to get a better feel of him as a General in general.
 

ManchesterLad

what is the obsession with hating haig?
all the other generals were doing exactly the same at the time, its just the conditions at somme were awful. bad preperation by the british and good preparation by the germans caused the massive loss of life. yes you could shift some of the bad preperation onto the sholdours of haig, but when talking about tactics, there was no other option.
 

The Red

Grigory Kulik was possibly the biggest idiot in modern warfare, he refused to use mines because they were "a cowardly weapon" and saw sub-machine guns as only fit for gangsters, thankfully Stalin got rid of him before he could do as much damage as he might have.
 

Commissar

Banned
William C. Westmoreland:

Failed to ensure the South Vietnamese Army he was training had honest non corrupt officers.

Failed to request enough armor for the country despite most of the terrain being accessible to it even in the wet season.

Did not understand the war he was fighting and allowed the NVA and Viet Cong to inflict defeat after defeat on him and the South Vietnamese Army.

Almost all of his tactical victories turned into strategic defeats because he failed to get the South Vietnamese to step up.

He did not end the blatant ticket punching by his officers and destroyed the cohesion of his units by allowing the six month rotations of his officers.
 

Snake Featherston

Banned
A few more for the list: Generals Kolchak and Denikin. Also in this vein General Percival. General Conrad von Hotzendorf. General Enver Pasha. General Kuropatkin. General Mustafa Tlass. General Pershing.
 
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