Worst Empire in modern times

[johnboy]

There seems to have been some spirited discussion on this in recent times, so which of the following are the worst Empires of the modern time, both in terms of human rights, exploitation, atrocities and lack of positive footprint they left behind?

Please feel free to name the top 5. You can consider pre 1900 events, but I have only included empires that existed post 1900.

 

[Raunchel]

1. Nazi Germany (It doesn't get much worse than that. Aside from their murderous policies, they were expansionist, opposed to any sort of modern development for the population, and well, evil.)

2. Japanese Empire (A bit like Nazi Germany, only without such extreme genocidal policies, although they did come close)

3. Soviet Union (Say what you want about how it was in the end, but under Stalin is was a horrible place. It only manages to not outscore the Nazis or Japanese by at least letting the population develop a little. In the USSR, I would have been allowed to study for instance, not so in the first two)

These would be my top three, the other empires were bad as well, very bad even, but they never matched these three in sheer brutality and scale.

 

[Derek Pullem]

The post-1900 element is a bit restrictive. The early empires have a heavy burden of guilt from the Atlantic slave trade but post-1900 the "bad" empire choice is easier.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

There seems to have been some spirited discussion on this in recent times, so which of the following are the worst Empires of the modern time, both in terms of human rights, exploitation, atrocities and lack of positive footprint they left behind?. Please feel free to name the top 5.

1) The Soviet Empire. (Yes, there was no Emperor, but neither was there an Emperor of the French Empire, as that Republic's colonial dominions were sometimes called.)

2) Nazi Germany.

3) The Japanese Empire of 1934-1945.

4) The Ottoman Empire. Behind Japan only because the Japanese worked harder at being evil.

5) The Central African Empire of Jean-Bédel Bokassa. Only three years, but with cannibalism! That's in a class by itself.

 

[von Mises]

I went with Belgium, which is probably a little unfair if you distinguish between the Congo as run by the Belgians, and the Congo as King Leopold's personal piggy bank. On the other hand the Congo Free State did last until 1908, and was deeply unpleasant - in something of, if not a league of it's own, then a league of very few.
.

 

[Insider]

1. Ottoman Empire. A protection racket that lasted 500 years, and made a centre of civilisation into Balkans we know today. It doesn't count how fearsome you are, but also how effective.
2. Soviet Empire... with atrocities that make Hitler and his cronies like noobs, this horror kept half of the Europe for fifty years. Their campaign of terror led Russians to seek refuge in the bottom of the bottle destroying the nation they strived to control.
3. Belgian Empire. Yes, tame and polite Belgians have a dark side as well. They are also surprisingly effective. It may seem weird now but Belgians are most effective terror dispensers per man. However their terror was too effective. Instead of compliant colony they were left with DEPOPULATED one, and there weren’t enough Belgians eager to become colonists.

 

[johnboy]

1. Nazi's - it doesn't get any worse than that. Planned genocide on a grand scale. I cannot think of one redeeming feature - maybe autobahns.

2. Soviets - murdered more than the Nazi's and unlike many didn't bother to restrict themselves to other countries citizens, quite happy to kill their own. Slightly better as they at least educated their people and sponsored developments.

At their worst, their human rights record and level of oppression was worse than the Nazi's.

3. Belgian Empire - Just a shit show, no other words for it.

4. Japanese Empire - atrocities, chemical warfare, bio warfare. POW's, Kamikazes. They had it all.

5. Toss up, can't decide between Italian, Dutch, French, American, German, British, Ottoman, Spanish and Portuguese. Maybe Portuguese, they did little for their colonies and it's got to be pretty bad when the Spanish say they were terrible to natives by Spanish Empire standards of the time.

Italians- a lovely set of atrocities and chemical weapons use in Ethiopia. Did SFA for the natives
Dutch- fought a war complete with atrocities post WW2 when others were attempting to decolonize
Americans-Talk about eager, instigated two wars to get an Empire, less oppressive than many I suppose
Germans- some "lovely" work in SWA
British- Concentration camps in South Africa, planned starvation in India, probably less exploitative than some
Ottomans- see Armenian history
Spain- see gold, take gold, slaughter those opposing taking gold
Portugal- see above
France- fought bitter post WW2 colonial wars pathetically trying to hold on
Russian-lets start with state sanction pogroms and move on from there, milder than many though. They only exiled their opponents, not generally torturing and shooting them en mass like Mr Lenin and Stalin etc

 

[mlp]

There seems to have been some spirited discussion on this in recent times, so which of the following are the worst Empires of the modern time, both in terms of human rights, exploitation, atrocities and lack of positive footprint they left behind?

Please feel free to name the top 5. You can consider pre 1900 events, but I have only included empires that existed post 1900.

I demand Korea be in the list!! We were also empire!!!

 

[johnboy]

I demand Korea be in the list!! We were also empire!!!

So you can be classified as being equally sh*t?

TBH I'd have to say the least obnoxious would seemingly be the Danes(unless one goes back 1000 years or so....BTW the next season of Vikings is not far away..)

 

[Derek Pullem]

3. Belgian Empire - Just a shit show, no other words for it.

Strictly speaking it wasn't a Belgian Empire but Leopold's Empire

 

[mlp]

So you can be classified as being equally sh*t?

TBH I'd have to say the least obnoxious would seemingly be the Danes(unless one goes back 1000 years or so....BTW the next season of Vikings is not far away..)

I suggest you also pick up Vinaland Saga. Is the best.

 

[Mikestone8]

1. Ottoman Empire. A protection racket that lasted 500 years, and made a centre of civilisation into Balkans we know today. It doesn't count how fearsome you are, but also how effective.

Were the Balkans really a "centre of civilisation" in the mid-1300s?

 

[HIM Dogson]

1. Nazi Germany. Needs no further explanation.

2. Imperial Japan. Total bastards, comfort women, experimentation, etc. At least they proved reverse racism exists.

3. Soviet Union, specifically under Stalin. The sheer amount of callousness is outstanding.

4. Belgian Empire. If you want a picture of a corporate state, look at the Congo Free State. The reason why it isn't higher is because most of their sickishness was before 1900.

5.Ottoman Empire, because of the Armenian Genocide.

 

[Lalli]

1. Nazi Germany

This hardly need any explanation.

2. Japanese Empire

Not so evil than Nazi Germany.

3. Soviet Union

Oppresive, lack of human rights, speciality under Stalin not much better than Nazi Germany.

4. Spain

Wasn't exatly empire anymore on 1900 but Franco's era was quiet terrible. Lack of democracy, oppresing of minorities and huge power of church.

5. People's Republic of China

China was speciality under Mao very terrible place but it not be very nice place even nowadays. No democracy, no human rights.

 

[mlp]

5. People's Republic of China

China was speciality under Mao very terrible place but it not be very nice place even nowadays. No democracy, no human rights.

That seems a bit extreme of a conclusion, have you ever visited?

 

[johnboy]

That seems a bit extreme of a conclusion, have you ever visited?

I should have included the PRC. I think it's a fair inclusion just for the Mao era.

 

[mlp]

I should have included the PRC. I think it's a fair inclusion just for the Mao era.

More than definitely. Maoist China was probably on par with Nazis in terms of brutality, particularly when you consider anarchy actually tends to have higher casualties than totalitarianism or even warfare.

 

[CarribeanViking]

Other; what about Vanuatu? They had so few plundering expeditions, they were hardly even trying...

Seriously, what is the point to this? A list of people to be acceptably rude about? Give me targets for my hate? What a futile, miserable exercise.

The point of studying history is not to emotionally react to it; crocodile tears be damned. The point is to learn and understand, to see what people do in given circumstances and make sense of why;

anti- history like this is a negative contribution to human intelligence. Burn all polls.

 

[Julius Vogel]

I would like to vote New Zealand, we really mucked up with Samoa and the Spanish Flu, for which we rightly apologised a decade ago, fwiw.

 

[Tom Colton]

I'm tempted to agree with CV here; this kind of discussion really feels like it ought to be in Chat except that polls aren't allowed there.

That said, Yuan Shikai's Empire of China is clearly the worst.