WI: WWI has Germany, UK, and Russia on same side

[TimTurner]

Exactly what it looks like on the tin.
I figure that, easily, that the issue if anything would be getting the UK and Russia aligned on the same side either due to chance (one nation going to war with both of them) or due to some sort of agreement settling the Great Game.
Bonus points if you can get Japan and/or Turkey fighting on the UK's side as well.

 

[Nicholai IV Vonskrieger]

Exactly what it looks like on the tin.
I figure that, easily, that the issue if anything would be getting the UK and Russia aligned on the same side either due to chance (one nation going to war with both of them) or due to some sort of agreement settling the Great Game.
Bonus points if you can get Japan and/or Turkey fighting on the UK's side as well.

The largest issue with this scenario is Russia, until Wilhelm II became actively antagonistic to Britain, the relationship between the two nations was amiable. However Russia, as long as it has been an international power, has always stood at odds to Britain. In china, in the black sea, in Afghanistan during the late 19th century.

The only way I can see this playing out is as follows.

1. The Alliance of Three Emperor's still collapses, but Germany decides to support Russian claims in the balkans instead of Austria's (bit of a stretch, but if Germany decides Russia is the stronger or more useful ally it could happen)

2. Germany acts as an intermediary between Britain and Russia, repairing their relationship

3. Germany scales back on its naval efforts and manages to secure an alliance with Britain. This cuts off any possibility of an Entente Cordiale

4. France instead pursues alliance with Italy, and possibly Japan, since the Anglo-Japanese alliance was formed to stem Russian aggression, the Japanese will have no inclination to side with Britain

5. WW1 - Franz Ferdinand still is assassinated, this causes Russia and Germany to declare war on Austria, France and Italy intervene, Britain declares war upon France, japan declares war upon Britain Russia and Germany

all in all, I see this being a debilitating defeat for any enemies of this alliance. With both German and British military aid and advising to Russia, she might actually be able to field a decent army and navy

 

[M79]

They win easily?

 

[TimTurner]

They win easily?

Most likely, unless the US gets involved. But how do you convince America to go against Germany and the UK, not to mention the only nation that stood on their side in the Civil War?

 

[M79]

Most likely, unless the US gets involved. But how do you convince America to go against Germany and the UK, not to mention the only nation that stood on their side in the Civil War?

Honestly this sounds like Berlin, London, and St Petersburg dividing up Europe amongst themselves. I doubt the US gets involved as (a) this war doesn't last long and (b) even if the rest of Europe, China, and Japan is together against them why would the US *want* to get involved?

 

[TimTurner]

Honestly this sounds like Berlin, London, and St Petersburg dividing up Europe amongst themselves. I doubt the US gets involved as (a) this war doesn't last long and (b) even if the rest of Europe, China, and Japan is together against them why would the US *want* to get involved?

patterns of migration pose a major difficulty. America got a lot of British and German migration...if you want to justify war against the Germany and the UK simultaneously, you probably need to reduce relative levels of German and British immigration and/or increase relative levels of non-German and British immigration.

 

[M79]

patterns of migration pose a major difficulty. America got a lot of British and German migration...if you want to justify war against the Germany and the UK simultaneously, you probably need to reduce relative levels of German and British immigration and/or increase relative levels of non-German and British immigration.

Well the Germans under Henry or with more tine under Frederick III are likely a lot more pro-Anglo than OTL, perhaps Napoleon IV survives to return to France and establish a Third Empire after 1899 (and the Presidential death) go a bit differently?

 

[TimTurner]

Well the Germans under Henry or with more tine under Frederick III are likely a lot more pro-Anglo than OTL, perhaps Napoleon IV survives to return to France and establish a Third Empire after 1899 (and the Presidential death) go a bit differently?

I could see that as a viable path.

 

[Vanity 6]

The war itself is post 1900 of course but if you are talking about the alliance system, it would essential be a tripartite peace system for as long as it lasts.

Say Germany and UK assent to San Stefano.
Austria-Hungary is Finlandized. But stable and prosperous. They don’t get Bosnia. But they won’t miss it. It’s ends up in Serbian hands.

Russia stays out of Central Asia.

What’s in it for Germany I don’t know. Maybe they get Morocco, Belgian Congo and some other stuff.

 

[Arcavia]

all in all, I see this being a debilitating defeat for any enemies of this alliance. With both German and British military aid and advising to Russia, she might actually be able to field a decent army and navy

Most likely, unless the US gets involved. But how do you convince America to go against Germany and the UK, not to mention the only nation that stood on their side in the Civil War?

I mean, the combination of British blockade and German USW could pull the US in, especially if there's more bad blood over Venezuela in 1895, the territorial disputes with Germany in the South Pacific, etc. Unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[Virginia Liberal]

Still if somehow the us does join its still gotta mobilize and the USN which isn't shabby but still out numbered has to clear a path across the Atlantic. And France has to hang on. In this scenario I'm imagining that the naval powers go
1. Britain
2. Distant USA
3. France
4. Germany
5. Russia
6. Austria Hungary
7. Italy

Of course the USA could just screw france and grab Canada.

 

[TyranicusMaximus]

Exactly what would motivate France, Italy, and Austria-Hungary to take on such an alliance? They'd be on the back foot and they'd know it.

 

[TimTurner]

Exactly what would motivate France, Italy, and Austria-Hungary to take on such an alliance? They'd be on the back foot and they'd know it.

Italy fighting with both France and Austria-Hungary is kinda odd but not implausible either as well, isn't it?

 

[mjwebb76]

The core issue with this WI is that the British have always sought to maintain the balance of power on the Continent. In other words, the British typically ally with the power that is against the dominant power (e.g. the typically allied with Austria against France). If Germany and Russia remain allied this would suggest allying with France and Austria. If for some reason Germany, Russia and Britain are allied the German invasion of France cannot go through Belgium. Of course without the fear of the Russian steamroller speed is less critical.

 

[unprincipled peter]

Initially, Britain considered an alliance with Germany, thinking France was the leading enemy power. Only through horrendous diplomatic effort/naval-military strategy did Germany drive a stake of fear into British heart.
In the unlikely event that France survives long against that alliance, the US will find itself selling to Britain/Germany, the same way it sold to Britain/France. Germany pushed US into the war by trying to break the material support. If France, now taking the place of being blockaded, tries to interfere with US trading, then US will join Britain/Germany/Russia in opposing France. Plus, Britain bankrolled the war. Whatever side Britain is on will have the ability to buy goods and to control maritime trade. This is all moot, as this war will be short.

 

[pjmidd]

I mean, the combination of British blockade and German USW could pull the US in, especially if there's more bad blood over Venezuela in 1895, the territorial disputes with Germany in the South Pacific, etc. Unlikely, but not impossible.

If the RN+HSF are blockading, the only chance of USW would be French trying it in desperation. When you have the largest Navy in the world ( with help ) sitting across the trade routes , you don't need to do anything but surface ships following cruiser rules.

 

[Arcavia]

If the RN+HSF are blockading, the only chance of USW would be French trying it in desperation. When you have the largest Navy in the world ( with help ) sitting across the trade routes , you don't need to do anything but surface ships following cruiser rules.

I can't imagine an Anglo-German alliance where the Germans build up the HSF to it's OTL size, both to appease the British and to invest more in the Army. Meanwhile, assuming France+Italy+AH can control at least part of the Mediterranean, and assuming they realize this to make the necessary preparations, the English and Germans have to blockade all of the French Atlantic coast, all of French Africa to prevent supplies from being landed there, and the entirety of Japan. I don't see how they don't turn to USW to at least augment a task that leaves even the RN stretched thin.

 

[TimTurner]

if the US does enter the war on side of France, Italy, A-H, and at least one or two other powers - is it a fair fight then? Is the juggernaut of UK+Germany+Russia matched then?

 

[Arcavia]

Still if somehow the us does join its still gotta mobilize and the USN which isn't shabby but still out numbered has to clear a path across the Atlantic. And France has to hang on. In this scenario I'm imagining that the naval powers go
1. Britain
2. Distant USA
3. France
4. Germany
5. Russia
6. Austria Hungary
7. Italy

Of course the USA could just screw france and grab Canada.

Id honestly imagine Japan slots in at #4, they were probably at #5 OTL and ITTL Germany won't invest in the HSF nearly as much.

 

[Virginia Liberal]

Yeah I forgot about Japan duh. I figured tttl Germany would be about like otl France 3 to 5 dreadnought plus some pretty dreads and a scattering of armored and protected cruisers