WI: The Twin Towers remained standing after the 9/11 attacks?

[TheMugato]

Somehow or another, I came across this analysis of the damage sustained by WTC-1 and WTC-2 on 9/11, published by FEMA a year following the attacks. In particular, I was struck by the following passage:

Preliminary analyses of the damaged structures, together with the fact that the structures remained standing for an extended period of time, suggest that, absent other severe loading events such as a windstorm or earthquake, the buildings could have remained standing in their damaged states until subjected to some significant additional load.
However, the structures were subjected to a second, simultaneous severe loading event in the form of the fires caused by the aircraft impacts.

Supposing we could conveniently handwave away the severity of the fires and the damage they caused, what would have been the next step if the damaged towers hadn't actually collapsed that day?
I'm almost certain they'd have to come down, but how do you go about safely dismantling (or repairing) two ~1400' skyscrapers that are at risk of collapsing in the heart of Manhattan?

 

[YYJ]

You are right it was the fires that weakened the structural elements and caused the collapse, probably hastened by the damage to core and perimeter columns. It is hard to imagine how the fires would not happen, since the aircraft needed at least a bit of fuel on board to fly. The sustained fire was a contents fire, started by the jet fuel and helped by the impact breaking out the drywall fire partitions, stripping the spray-on fireproofing on steel columns and trusses, and destroying the sprinkler system.

But if the fire is somehow less serious, and the towers remain standing, but condemned , it would be perhaps the most challenging demolition project in history. High rises are built using the building to support the construction cranes. (Not quite, the cranes stand on the ground and pass through the building via an elevator shaft or similar opening, but the building supplies lateral support)

If the buildings were considered so dangerous, that no one could enter, I don’t know what would be done. Controlled demolition (real this time, not imaginary) from the ground floor, with most of the same effects as OTL. I expect lower Manhattan would need to be evacuated.

If access was possible, then all of the contents, glass, drywall, asbestos, etc could be removed by hand (a huge amount of work) small crane, and/or helicopter and then the building destroyed by controlled demolition. If the buildings collapsed as they did IOTL, but with only steel and concrete remaining, and they were surrounded by tarps and blast walls on the ground, and the entire thing was misted as it fell to decrease the dust, then the resulting debris cloud would be smaller and less toxic.

If the buildings were strong enough to support full size construction cranes, then they could be deconstructed from the top down.

I suppose another option, depending on the circumstance, would be to deconstruct the building down past the damaged area, and refurbish them as shorter buildings. Or even build them back up from the undamaged floor.

It all sort of depends on what state the remaining building are in. And I suppose the economic viability.

 

[Nivek]

circumstance, would be to deconstruct the building down past the damaged area, and refurbish them as shorter buildings

This one could be interesting,the tower surviving albeit smaller in form

 

[West234]

Well the immediate change is that a lot less people would die and they would be able to successfully evacuate the buildings,However regardless the effects on events like the war on terror would be the same. I think assuming the buildings are still mostly structurally sound and assuming they only obtained localized damage from the crash and the fires that they would be repaired. I am not exactly an architect however there would be massively pressure on and from within the government to rebuild the towers. It would be extremely easy in the wake of 9/11 to get congress to pass some kind of massive spending bill to fund the rebuilding of the towers. The only case I can see them taring them down would be if they are at a massive active risk of falling over otherwise I think they would throw as much money at the rebuilding effort as possible just for the symbolic value of rebuilding the towers alone.

 

[DougM]

The Fires were by far the majority of the damage. With no fire the Damage is relatively minor and restricted to a s,Al number of floors and does not drastically weaken the structure.
So presumably they r such in temporary bracing and temp repairs and seal the wholes then tprebuold the building, Go look up the building that was built in NY that had yo get braced after it was built because the wind load was miss calculated.
Repairijg the Towers is not a big deal of the structure isn’t weakened by the fire

 

[CarlosTheAltHistoryGuy]

Well the immediate change is that a lot less people would die and they would be able to successfully evacuate the buildings,However regardless the effects on events like the war on terror would be the same. I think assuming the buildings are still mostly structurally sound and assuming they only obtained localized damage from the crash and the fires that they would be repaired. I am not exactly an architect however there would be massively pressure on and from within the government to rebuild the towers. It would be extremely easy in the wake of 9/11 to get congress to pass some kind of massive spending bill to fund the rebuilding of the towers. The only case I can see them taring them down would be if they are at a massive active risk of falling over otherwise I think they would throw as much money at the rebuilding effort as possible just for the symbolic value of rebuilding the towers alone.

If the towers still stand then it wouldn't have the ultra radical effect that it had OTL (since the NYC skyline wouldn't be changed)

 

[tallthinkev]

Should think the people of New York would not be very happy with a threat, how ever small, of a bloody great tower falling on their heads. A, what, 1/2 mile radius evacuation zone may well have to be done, and that's a lot of people. If this can be done it doesn't matter how the towers are treated. In any case a zone of 1/4 mile radius will have to put in to place. Still a lot of people will need somewhere to live and more to work.
Taking down or rebuilding is the easy bit.

 

[YYJ]

Should think the people of New York would not be very happy with a threat, how ever small, of a bloody great tower falling on their heads. A, what, 1/2 mile radius evacuation zone may well have to be done, and that's a lot of people. If this can be done it doesn't matter how the towers are treated. In any case a zone of 1/4 mile radius will have to put in to place. Still a lot of people will need somewhere to live and more to work.
Taking down or rebuilding is the easy bit.

This makes me think of what the real estate value of a quarter mile radius in lower Manhattan is worth. Billions?

 

[alspug]

The justification to attack ISIS in Afghanistan exists. The Justification to attack Saddam Hussein is not only non existent but the time for calmer minds to prevail may remove the war entirely. THat would make 1 - 2 million Iraq and Syrian people still survive and also reduce the severity of the cost in lives and material that Iraq cost the US Citizens.

 

[Normal for Norfolk]

The justification to attack ISIS in Afghanistan exists. The Justification to attack Saddam Hussein is not only non existent but the time for calmer minds to prevail may remove the war entirely. THat would make 1 - 2 million Iraq and Syrian people still survive and also reduce the severity of the cost in lives and material that Iraq cost the US Citizens.

What do ISIS have to do with 9/11?

 

[alspug]

What do ISIS have to do with 9/11?

I meant to say Al Queada.....never post after taking bulk painkillers.

The Way it works is this. Al Queada was in Afghanistan and some African countries but did not seem to be in Iraq at all. However the invasion of Iraq destabilised the region in a major way.

The War was won fast and efficently. Then the peace was one failure after another with soldiers trying to keep the violence from getting out of hand.
The installing of politicians that had loyalty to the USA as the reason they got installed made things worse.
Iran destabilising the region was not a fun situation either.
By the time the ISIS group reared their ugly heads the situation was ripe for the overthrowing of multiple countries.
They came close in Iraq and would have done more if not for the Allied bombing of the group.

End result was that the Invasion of Iraq resulted in an estimated 460,000 deaths by 2011, then when ISIS came about the number of deaths skyrocketed because the Allied soldiers did not deliberately kill civilians whereas ISIS literally killed deliberately for any reason they felt like. Reliable figures for those killed by ISIS across the world are hard to find but figures for Syria alone are horrendous and date from 2016, figures for Iraq mention 13,000 in Mosul alone during the fighting to liberate the city from ISIS.

I do not blame the soldiers, I blame the politicians and warlords who do not care for human life.

 

[Normal for Norfolk]

I meant to say Al Queada.....never post after taking bulk painkillers.

I'm sorry you're having to take them. Hope you'll be off them soon or at least be able to cut down.

 

[alspug]

I'm sorry you're having to take them. Hope you'll be off them soon or at least be able to cut down.

I have a chronic obstruction of my L5 Nerve to the left leg. Without painkillers I do not sleep. Currently I take 750mg Lyrca , 70mg Norgesic and .8ml CBD Oil %100 (zero THC). Some days it is enough other days I am unable to sleep easily. BTW I take all of that in one go. on a good day I go to sleep 2hrs later, on a bad day it takes 6 or 7 hours to fall asleep and I get 3 or 4 hours sleep.

Nerve obstruction can't be operated on as exact location is uncertain and odds of making it worse just too high.

 

[SodaMan1996]

If the towers still stand then it wouldn't have the ultra radical effect that it had OTL (since the NYC skyline wouldn't be changed)

It absolutely would have a radical effect.

It wasn't just the WTC that was attacked, the Pentagon (which is where the headquarters for the Department of Defense is) was also attacked.

Even if the WTC hadn't collapsed, it doesn't erase the fact that bin Laden still attacked the WTC and the Pentagon (symbols of America's economic and military power, respectively), which means we'd still have the War on Terror.

 

[CarlosTheAltHistoryGuy]

It absolutely would have a radical effect.

It wasn't just the WTC that was attacked, the Pentagon (which is where the headquarters for the Department of Defense is) was also attacked.

Even if the WTC hadn't collapsed, it doesn't erase the fact that bin Laden still attacked the WTC and the Pentagon (symbols of America's economic and military power, respectively), which means we'd still have the War on Terror.

Probably, but the buildings still being there would mean that there's less of a cultural effect (like sure the attacks were bad but at least they're still there)

 

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

Probably, but the buildings still being there would mean that there's less of a cultural effect (like sure the attacks were bad but at least they're still there)

I dunno: if they're standing there vacant for several years, wrapped in emergency scaffolding and tarps, surrounded by several blocks cordoned off, while the Port Authority argues with other authorities whether they're salvagable and who's gotta to pay to fix or demolish them, that would have a very negative cultural and economic effect

 

[tallthinkev]

I dunno: if they're standing there vacant for several years, wrapped in emergency scaffolding and tarps, surrounded by several blocks cordoned off, while the Port Authority argues with other authorities whether they're salvagable and who's gotta to pay to fix or demolish them, that would have a very negative cultural and economic effect

You forgot insurance companies, there's not one situation they can not make worse. Law suits will still be going on today