WI Stalin was overthrown

BlackWave · Jun 12, 2009

Stalin, as we all know, was a bit worried about being overthrown by his underlings (nominate this for understatement of the year, someone.

) As he purged them all, it's unclear how true this was. What if Stalin had been overthrown in some time between 1930 and his death? Who would be a likely pepetrator, and what would the consequences be?

Sachyriel · Jun 12, 2009

You thi he might get executed from being crushed by one of his own statues?

MerryPrankster · Jun 12, 2009

Perhaps someone thinks he's about to purged and does something rash?

Beria's the one who's got the best means of doing so, sine he's the head of the NKVD, but he was a rather odious character, so if he whacks Stalin, he's likely to get whacked himself.

(Think his OTL death, only a generation earlier)

sahaidak · Jun 12, 2009

BlackWave said:
Stalin, as we all know, was a bit worried about being overthrown by his underlings (nominate this for understatement of the year, someone. ) As he purged them all, it's unclear how true this was. What if Stalin had been overthrown in some time between 1930 and his death? Who would be a likely pepetrator, and what would the consequences be?

Likely date - 22nd of June, 1941 (by some accounts, Stalin was really worried then; he accepted his responsibility for the Union's unpreparedness and expected to be removed from the position and executed).
Likely perpetrators - members of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party.
Consequences - at your pleasure (from the defeat of the USSR and the Allies because of prolonged infighting in Moscow, on the one hand, and to the early successful democratization of the victorious Union after WWII under enlightened leadership of Comrade Beria, on the other hand).

Blue Max · Jun 12, 2009

Former NKVD heads Yezhov and Yagoda would be in a similar position. They were both scary men.

Chengar Qordath · Jun 12, 2009

Blue Max said:
Former NKVD heads Yezhov and Yagoda would be in a similar position. They were both scary men.

That seems like one of the better PoDs for removing Stalin to me; if either one of them had sufficient warning that Stalin planned to purge them they would have tried to remove Stalin from the picture, and probably would have had the resources to do it.

Urban fox · Jun 14, 2009

''Vyacheslav go forward we'll follow you''

Those words were spoken to Molotov in 1941 by another Politburo member (I forget who) after Stalin had his 2-day breakdown.

Molotov's speech, broadcast by radio on june 22 1941, played in Russia a role similar to Winston Churchill's ''we'll fight them on the beaches speech'' in Britain, and had a major impact, so he'd likely be the only one to have the clout & public/party support to replace Stalin during wartime.

So what if Stalin is deposed for has screw ups and inability to read Hitler’s intensions despite numerous warnings, and quickly arrests him and puts Molotov in charge? (He's the only realistic candidate at this point)

Snowman23 · Jun 14, 2009

Yeah, Stalin is ousted by the Party backed by the Military still disgruntled over the purge, and puts Molotov in charge. I would say then war goes normal, except maybe quicker for Molotov would react and do something about the mass encirclements that the Wehrmacht used to such great effect, save more of the army, be able to launch counter strike sooner. I mean did any of Stalin's orders ever do the Red Army any good?

BlackWave · Jun 14, 2009

Snowman23 said:
Yeah, Stalin is ousted by the Party backed by the Military still disgruntled over the purge, and puts Molotov in charge. I would say then war goes normal, except maybe quicker for Molotov would react and do something about the mass encirclements that the Wehrmacht used to such great effect, save more of the army, be able to launch counter strike sooner. I mean did any of Stalin's orders ever do the Red Army any good?

Well, it was only when Stalin started delegating to people like Zhukov did things turn better. I'm sure Molotov would have had a bit more common sense, and would have left military matters to the experts. The war may turn out similar to OTL, but it's post-war politics that everything starts to go screwy...

Urban fox · Jun 14, 2009

BlackWave said:
Well, it was only when Stalin started delegating to people like Zhukov did things turn better. I'm sure Molotov would have had a bit more common sense, and would have left military matters to the experts. The war may turn out similar to OTL, but it's post-war politics that everything starts to go screwy...

I can see the USSR doing a bit better in the war Molotov wont try to butt in on the military side of things as much. On the other hand Stalin was good at organization & logistics and did help the Soviet war effort through his blunders like Khar’kov also cost it dearly…It’s a bit of a wash.

Stalin suffed stokes and other ailments in the post-war years, it made him erratic and mentally unstable, Molotov lived till 1985 and kept his mental fatuities mostly intact. If he can stay in power (and he was pretty ruthless) Molotov may lead the USSR for 40 years.

You can unleash a butterfly swarm here. Molotov was a hardliner but he was also a bit more practical-minded than Khrushchev. Malenkov, Beria & Kaganovich may also be kept in power on the Politburo. (Beria would likely get killed off at some point as eveyone really feared & hated him)