WI/PC: Swedish Saint Petersburg?

Fehérvári

Let's say this at the beginning, I do not ask here that how could the swedes defeat the russians take Saint Petersburg. My question revolves arund, if the swedes achieve a major or more like crushing victory over the russians, maybe as a member of an anti-russian coalition, and they take the Baltics, would they take Ingria alongside with Saint Petersburg too? Or would it be just morally inacceptable for taking an other countries Capital? The POD is between the treaty of Nystadt and the Congress of Vienna.
(Off: Lately I created many threads, is there any rule against creating too much threads within an intervallum, or is it no problem?)
 

Jürgen

Sweden was pretty much a rogue state in the 16-18th century, if they can take St. Petersburg, they will take it. Of course the better question is what will happen to a Swedish St. Petersburg, the city main sources of income was Russian exports (which would likely move to other cities if the Swedes took it) and the influx of capital to run the Russian court, navy and administration. I think the city will lose people if Sweden take it, end up with 2/3 of the population leaving and it will simply become little more than a local garrison city and administrative centre of Ingria.
 

longsword14

Banned
Jürgen said:
Sweden was pretty much a rogue state in the 16-18th century, if they can take St. Petersburg, they will take it. Of course the better question is what will happen to a Swedish St. Petersburg, the city main sources of income was Russian exports (which would likely move to other cities if the Swedes took it) and the influx of capital to run the Russian court, navy and administration. I think the city will lose people if Sweden take it, end up with 2/3 of the population leaving and it will simply become little more than a local garrison city and administrative centre of Ingria.
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Was there a 'St. Petersburg' then? 2/3 population being expelled for what? in the 16th, 17th century Russia did not have any major designs on it. The Baltic was dominated by the Swedes for some time.
It makes sense to ask about the feasibility of maintaining a toehold close to far more populated areas though. Swedish control of the Baltic was not going to last with everyone wanting a piece.
 

Jurgen Wullenwever

In the 1722-1814 period, there were still many Swedes/Finns in Ingria and in Petersburg, and since the area had been Swedish just recently, of course Sweden would take it if it was possible. In such circumstances creating a more defensible border might also be preferable, but where would that best be placed? Along the White Sea and the Karelian lakes, perhaps, but further south there would be a need for securing a large territory around Novgorod. (Hard to imagine such a grand victory in that era, but it is still not completely unrealistic. The Swedes did attack Russia twice, so they could imagine something like this, even if they utterly failed.)
 
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funnyhat

The city actually was originally a Swedish settlement, a fortress called Nyenschantz. It was captured by Russia in 1703 and was renamed St. Petersburg. So the challenge is really just to have the Swedes successfully defend it.
 

thekingsguard

Yeah, St. Petersburg as we know it didn't exist until post-Great Northern War. It was built on land Peter the Great had conquered from Sweden to mark his new capital.

So no need to conquer it, trouble is defending it. Have the Swedes win the day at Poltava. Done.
 

LordKalvan

funnyhat said:
The city actually was originally a Swedish settlement, a fortress called Nyenschantz. It was captured by Russia in 1703 and was renamed St. Petersburg. So the challenge is really just to have the Swedes successfully defend it.
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IIRC Nyenschantz used to be the import/export door on the Baltic when Ingria was Swedish, so its commercial importance should not dramatically change. Of course there would not be the Russian government to boost up population, but in the first half of 18th century it should not be a large impact anyway
 
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