WI: Moreau accepts command of US Army in War of 1812

[jenalysis]

Moreau was one of Napoleon's top generals pre-Empire, but was banished to the US in 1805.

When the War of 1812 broke out, he was offered command, and was willing to accept, but news of Napoleon's Defeat in Russia happens.

What if Nappy's invasion gets delayed to 1813 for some reason, or he winters better, and the Grande Armee is in better shape, and Moreau accepts the US command? Would he have helped significantly against the British?

 

[The Gunslinger]

I doubt much would change other than the specifics. If he ends up in command at the start of the war, the beginnings are already laid out for the campaign season and the shortcomings are already in effect. Nothing he does is going to give the Americans an edge on Lake Ontario or be able to make the army able to assault Montreal. He might be able to avert the fall of Detroit in 1812, but the war probably sticks pretty close to OTL because of Americanbinstitutional weakness.

Having said that, I need to do more research because I've never actually seen anything about him in any of my reading.

 

[piratedude]

A quick glance at his Wikipedia says he was offered the opportunity to serve in the army almost immediately after arriving in the US in 1805, but he held off as he settled into his new life.

However, an excellent time for him to join up could have been when Madison took office (1808), when tensions with Britain were still on the rise.

 

[The Gunslinger]

A quick glance at his Wikipedia says he was offered the opportunity to serve in the army almost immediately after arriving in the US in 1805, but he held off as he settled into his new life.

However, an excellent time for him to join up could have been when Madison took office (1808), when tensions with Britain were still on the rise.

But that doesn't change much. The army is still horrifically underfunded and disorganized and the militia quality low. His being in the army won't change that.

 

[Valentinian]

If he takes command, he will take one look at the festering cesspool of geriatrics, incompetents, and clowns that were vast majority of the high command at the start of the war and make demands of Madison to completely reform both the army and the high command. Politically, Madison could not comply and Moreau would resign. If he stays in the US after this, Madison may be more willing to use Moreau to reform the army by 1814. Facing the hangman, as Madison and the country were by 1814, has a way of focusing the mind.

 

[piratedude]

But that doesn't change much. The army is still horrifically underfunded and disorganized and the militia quality low. His being in the army won't change that.

not necessarily.

Madison by the time he became president had made a lot of enemies in both parties, which had knock on effects on his cabinet picks, such as his first chosen Secretary of War being utterly unsuitable for the task.

Since at the time the secretary of war was not part of the presidential succession, and there was already somewhat of a precedent for foreign born american-citizens* being cabinet members(though only the secretary of the treasury thus far), Madison could have turned to Moreau who was dedicated to republican government, an experienced military man, and not technically part of either party.

While 1810 is still late to fix everything, I think he could still do a lot to shape things up before war breaks out, and maybe even convincing Madison to hold off prompting congress to declare war for another year while military things are put in order.

*(idk if he ever attempted to be a US citizen, but under the 1804 naturalization law he could have become one by 1810)

 

[Pesterfield]

What will British propaganda make of this?
Will one of Napolean's generals fighting for the U.S. be seen as putting the American firmly on the side of France in the Napoleonic wars?

 

[general]

Moreau was a rival of Bonaparte's I believe, so may be not. But then, when has propaganda worried about such niceties?

 

[The Gunslinger]

While 1810 is still late to fix everything, I think he could still do a lot to shape things up before war breaks out, and maybe even convincing Madison to hold off prompting congress to declare war for another year while military things are put in order.

*(idk if he ever attempted to be a US citizen, but under the 1804 naturalization law he could have become one by 1810)

If Madison holds off a year, there probably isn't a war. The Orders in Council are abolished and America loses a huge plank for its war effort. The vote for war was very narrow in OTL even with the Orders in Council. You've also got Napoleon and his failure in Russia with Britain and her continental allies on the upswing. The window for war was extremely narrow.

What will British propaganda make of this?
Will one of Napolean's generals fighting for the U.S. be seen as putting the American firmly on the side of France in the Napoleonic wars?

Britain already viewed the American conflict as a stab in the back, so not much changes. I think it would ruffle more feathers domestically with the anti-Napoleon crowd (mostly Federalists) arguing that it puts America more in the French orbit.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

If Madison holds off a year, there probably isn't a war. The Orders in Council are abolished and America loses a huge plank for its war effort. The vote for war was very narrow in OTL even with the Orders in Council. You've also got Napoleon and his failure in Russia with Britain and her continental allies on the upswing. The window for war was extremely narrow.

Frankly there's where the timeline is in this WI. Madison selects Moreau as SoW, Secretary Moreau takes one look at the pathetic state of the US military, and about has a fit. He argues endlessly with Madison about this, and while he fails to get the military he knows that he needs he does manage to get Madison to delay any war with the UK. By 1813 the casus beli is gone, and the war is averted. Moreau has implemented some reforms and improved the management and integration of militias, but the US is still not truly ready for a major war, and will be more likely to know it. Madison is a small government antifederalist with a disdain for standing militaries, but much more pragmatic than Jefferson, and may be willing to take a hard look at the US military, as might whomever takes over after him (Monroe?).

However, IIRC many of the underlying issues that the war partly sorted out, e.g. the borders, the status of New Orleans, British support for indigenous war efforts, etc., are still there to cause ongoing tensions.

Someone could conceivably make a TL from this PoD where the War of 1812 is averted, but another Anglo-American war, perhaps over Oregon or NOLA or Indian wars or something, does happen. Hardly my area of expertise on what happens next, but I'd be interested in seeing what unfolds if somebody went there.

 

[piratedude]

However, IIRC many of the underlying issues that the war partly sorted out, e.g. the borders, the status of New Orleans, British support for indigenous war efforts, etc., are still there to cause ongoing tensions.

Someone could conceivably make a TL from this PoD where the War of 1812 is averted, but another Anglo-American war, perhaps over Oregon or NOLA or Indian wars or something, does happen. Hardly my area of expertise on what happens next, but I'd be interested in seeing what unfolds if somebody went there

Right, the indian wars, Tecumseh's war in particular, are going to happen even if the US doesn't start shit with Britain, largely thanks to William Henry Harrison's relentless push for more indian land.

And the fate of the Spanish Floridas and Louisiana is also is up in the air, considering how Madison's attempt to buy west Florida were kinda bungled

 

[chekoventerprise]

What will British propaganda make of this?
Will one of Napolean's generals fighting for the U.S. be seen as putting the American firmly on the side of France in the Napoleonic wars?

If I remember correctly from The Civil War of 1812 by Alan Taylor (a really good book that I highly reccomend), he mentions that the British did fear that Moreau was part of some secret agreement between the US and France to conquer Canada and install a sort of puppet kingdom in Quebec under Moreau.