WI: Louis d'Orléans widowed in 1484

Jan Olbracht

Louis, Duke of Orleans, later King of France as Louis XII, was forced by Louis XI to marry his handicaped and likely sterile daughter Joan. Say Joan ITTL is even less healthly and dies just one year after her father, leaving Louis d'Orléans free to remarry (perhaps to her:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_de_Bourbon,_Duchess_of_Bourbon )
Death of Charles VIII in 1498 was freak accident, but say that he dies anyway like IOTL. Meanwhile First Prince of Blood Louis d'Orléans is already married with children. In such situation, what would happen to Anne of Brittany? If King of France could not marry her, he should at least ensure she would not marry anyone else. Also, if King of France not needing annulment of his marriage, how would his relations with Pope Alexander VI looks like?
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Jan Olbracht said:
Louis, Duke of Orleans, later King of France as Louis XII, was forced by Louis XI to marry his handicaped and likely sterile daughter Joan. Say Joan ITTL is even less healthly and dies just one year after her father, leaving Louis d'Orléans free to remarry (perhaps to her:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_de_Bourbon,_Duchess_of_Bourbon )
Death of Charles VIII in 1498 was freak accident, but say that he dies anyway like IOTL. Meanwhile First Prince of Blood Louis d'Orléans is already married with children. In such situation, what would happen to Anne of Brittany? If King of France could not marry her, he should at least ensure she would not marry anyone else. Also, if King of France not needing annulment of his marriage, how would his relations with Pope Alexander VI looks like?
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I think Anne of Brittany might marry the Prince of Orange.
 

Jan Olbracht

kasumigenx said:
I think Anne of Brittany might marry the Prince of Orange.
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Louis would do everything to prevent her from marrying anyone. Perhaps she'll be bethrothed to one of his sons, if he had any, but with such age difference doubt he'd be enthusiasthic also about this solution.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Jan Olbracht said:
Louis would do everything to prevent her from marrying anyone. Perhaps she'll be bethrothed to one of his sons, if he had any, but with such age difference doubt he'd be enthusiasthic also about this solution.
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Perhaps a possible solution for this is for Anne to have her daughters with Charles VIII survive.
 

Jan Olbracht

I wonder, if Louis has a son born around 1487/88, wouldn't Ferdinand and Isabella preffer him over Arthur Tudor as candidate for Catherine of Aragon' hand?
 

Kellan Sullivan

Time it right and Anne might end up as Philipp of Burgundy's wife instead of Juana. If Isabel, Princess de los Asturias, dies (giving birth to a stillborn child) and Manuel needs a new wife pronto, I could see the Catholic monarchs either opting for the widowed Margarethe of Austria or Juana, and shift Maria to wed Philipp.
Philipp is pissed by the change in arrangements, and Louis sees an opportunity to drive a wedge between the Habsburgs and Spain.
It'd probably be helluva complicated (and presumably require no marriage between Max and Anne in 1490), but it could work.

Other option is Edward Stafford, duke of Buckingham. Henry VII proposed him at some point, if he hasn't wed his OTL wife yet (think they only wed in 1499) then Louis might be willing to take it, given that Stafford is a pretty minor player. He's an Englishman, but he's ambitious and from a family with a history of being anti-whichever monarch is on the throne. Good stick to hit Henry with at some future point, and nice way to make sure that Brittany isn't too cosy with England.

James IV (or one of his brothers) might be another option.
 

Jan Olbracht

@Kellan Sullivan How likely is marriage between Louis and Catherine of Navarre? He would need dispensation from Pope (Catherine was first cousin of his previous wife) and Royal consent. First Prince of Blood getting too strong? It would not be liked in Paris.
 

Jan Olbracht

So let's continue with Jeanne de Bourbon. Say they married in 1486 and have following children:
*Louis (b. 1487)
*Claude (b. 1488)
*Isabella (b. 1490)
*Charles (b. 1492, dies as infant)
* Anne (b. 1494)
*Stillborn son 1499. Jeanne dies giving birth to him.
Thus Louis could still marry Anne of Brittany. He still needs Papal dispensation, but not annulment. Would he still made alliance with Alexander VI? And would we see Catherine of Aragon married to Dauphin?
 

Kellan Sullivan

Jan Olbracht said:
So let's continue with Jeanne de Bourbon. Say they married in 1486 and have following children:
*Louis (b. 1487)
*Claude (b. 1488)
*Isabella (b. 1490)
*Charles (b. 1492, dies as infant)
* Anne (b. 1494)
*Stillborn son 1499. Jeanne dies giving birth to him.
Thus Louis could still marry Anne of Brittany. He still needs Papal dispensation, but not annulment. Would he still made alliance with Alexander VI? And would we see Catherine of Aragon married to Dauphin?
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Borgia's in a bind here. Louis' remarriage to Anne is conditional as per Anne's marriage contract to Charles VIII which, IIRC, stated that if she had no kids sith Chaz she was obliged to marry his successor - if he were available. If he were not, she had to settle for the next in line.

Louis doesn't NEED Alex in the same way he did OTL. No messy divorce, no reason that Alex can't give him the dispensation - unless Alex tries to make a liar out of Innocent VIII who issued the dispensation for Chaz and Anne to marry in the first place (and IIRC) inserted the nifty little clause mentioned above.

What this means for Borgia's papacy is anyone's guess. Cesare probably doesn't have to go to France and ergo, presumably never marries Louise d'Albret. Louis might not feel so kindly about Alex when he's rampaging through Italy to get Milan.
 

Jan Olbracht

Kellan Sullivan said:
Borgia's in a bind here. Louis' remarriage to Anne is conditional as per Anne's marriage contract to Charles VIII which, IIRC, stated that if she had no kids sith Chaz she was obliged to marry his successor - if he were available. If he were not, she had to settle for the next in line.

Louis doesn't NEED Alex in the same way he did OTL. No messy divorce, no reason that Alex can't give him the dispensation - unless Alex tries to make a liar out of Innocent VIII who issued the dispensation for Chaz and Anne to marry in the first place (and IIRC) inserted the nifty little clause mentioned above.

What this means for Borgia's papacy is anyone's guess. Cesare probably doesn't have to go to France and ergo, presumably never marries Louise d'Albret. Louis might not feel so kindly about Alex when he's rampaging through Italy to get Milan.
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The same Alexander VI has given annulment to Vladislaus II of Hungary, so he was able to marry Anne de Foix (and that marriage, proposed by Anne of Brittany, was part of French alliance with Jagiellons), so I wonder how would things be affected here? His annulment was on the way from 1493 already, so possibly it would still happen, although it may be delayed without French pressure.
 

isabella

Guys why you are so sure who the future Louis XII will remarry just after Joan’s death?
Catherine of Navarre is pretty unlikely as the Duke of Orléans’ sister was married to her uncle and rival and so he was allied with her enemies but I see another candidate much better than Jeanne de Bourbon for the Duke of Orléans aka Anne of Brittany herself...
I think pretty likely who Louis will wait to remarry if he has the chance to have a big heiress as wife...
And while is not ideal for her a wedding between Louis, Duke of Orléans and Anne, heiress of Brittany is something who Anne of Beaujeu can tolerate much better than the OTL wedding of Anne to Maximilian of Austria (plus Louis is nearer and had not distraction who will prevent him from helping Anne, marrying her and consumate the wedding) so is unlikely who the regent will feel the need (or will able) to force Anne’s wedding to her brother the king (who had already a very good match with young Margaret of Austria, and, considering who Maximilian was already forced to give Margaret with the contested land to Charles, would be better do not umiliate the princess when Maximilian is not the enemy)...

Charles VIII will marry Anne, Duchess of Brittany only if that is the only system for preventing her wedding to Maximilian of Austria (who already has control of Burgundy thanks to his son). Without the Maximilian-Anne’s match Charles and Anne of Beaujeu have no reason for rejecting and umiliating Margaret of Austria so she will stay as wife of Charles...
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

isabella said:
Guys why you are so sure who the future Louis XII will remarry just after Joan’s death?
Catherine of Navarre is pretty unlikely as the Duke of Orléans’ sister was married to her uncle and rival and so he was allied with her enemies but I see another candidate much better than Jeanne de Bourbon for the Duke of Orléans aka Anne of Brittany herself...
I think pretty likely who Louis will wait to remarry if he has the chance to have a big heiress as wife...
And while is not ideal for her a wedding between Louis, Duke of Orléans and Anne, heiress of Brittany is something who Anne of Beaujeu can tolerate much better than the OTL wedding of Anne to Maximilian of Austria (plus Louis is nearer and had not distraction who will prevent him from helping Anne, marrying her and consumate the wedding) so is unlikely who the regent will feel the need (or will able) to force Anne’s wedding to her brother the king (who had already a very good match with young Margaret of Austria, and, considering who Maximilian was already forced to give Margaret with the contested land to Charles, would be better do not umiliate the princess when Maximilian is not the enemy)...

Charles VIII will marry Anne, Duchess of Brittany only if that is the only system for preventing her wedding to Maximilian of Austria (who already has control of Burgundy thanks to his son). Without the Maximilian-Anne’s match Charles and Anne of Beaujeu have no reason for rejecting and umiliating Margaret of Austria so she will stay as wife of Charles...
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Actually, Louis the Duke of Orleans DID plan to marry Anne of Brittany before her proxy marriage with Maximilian and have his marriage annulled.
 

isabella

kasumigenx said:
Actually, Louis the Duke of Orleans DID plan to marry Anne of Brittany before her proxy marriage with Maximilian and have his marriage annulled.
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Exactly. Anne was an attractive bride for him and he was more or less allied with her father so I can see him wanting Anne as wife if widowed and focusing his energy on obtaining her as second wife more than marrying someone like Jeanne. Likely Louis will be able to marry Duchess Anne of Brittany and Charles VIII then will stay engaged to Margaret of Austria-Burgundy (who was a great match, do not forget who getting her for his son was Louis XI’s war prize) and marry her. Considering Margaret’s age and the Italian campaign is unlikely his wedding will be consummated before late 1495. Considering again Margaret’s age and the OTL luck of both Charles and Margaret with children is pretty likely who Charles in 1498 will die childless and Louis and Anne will be the next sovereign. The 18 years old Queen Dowager Margaret then will be a problem as Maximilian and Philip will ask to have back Margaret with her dowry (who included at least the County of Artois, the County of Burgundy and the Duchy of Burgundy).
 
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