WI: Indian Ocean Hegemonic Maritime Empire?

Geekhis Khan · Dec 10, 2009

I'm absolutely no expert in this area, but I've always wondered, knowing about OTL's wide-ranging Indian Ocean trade network, if some Athens or Carthage-like maritime economic hegemonic power could arise along the Indian Ocean? I'm imagining a naval power with a signifigant advantage in naval tech over their neighbors capable of virtually monopolising the oceanic trade and creating an economic empire with outlying trade colonies.

1. Did anything of the sort exist OTL on any scale? If so who, when, how long?

2. If not, who would the prime candidates be?

3. How sustainable could such an "empire" be?

4. What are the historical/economic/cultural/technological butterflies for Asia, Indochina, and Africa?

5. What happens if/when Europe and/or China make their appearance(s)?

Any thoughts?

Falastur · Dec 10, 2009

The Sultanate of Muscat and Oman controlled what is now Oman, I think parts of Yemen, the island of Socotra, and from the island of Zanzibar controlled a vast swathe of the African coastline which turned into the basis for the German colony of Tanganyika and the British colony of Kenya. They also controlled several strategic and commercial ports in what is now Somaliland. They maintained this dominance through trading profits for several centuries, overcoming Portuguese domination and flourishing up until the family split into two parts, dividing their inheritance and swiftly being annexed by Europeans a few decades into the 19th century.

MerryPrankster · Dec 10, 2009

The Sultanate of Oman might make a good candidate. IIRC they were active all along the East African coast.

See Falastur's post for more detailed info.

Geekhis Khan · Dec 10, 2009

Oman seems like a good candidate. Potential for wank to create the major hegemony I've proposed?

What was their naval tech, roughly OE galley level?

carlton_bach · Dec 10, 2009

IIRC Chola achieved a degree of maritime dominance in the Eastern Indian Ocean and into Malaysia. I see no particular reason why that should be impossible for later South Indian states.

EvolvedSaurian · Dec 10, 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholas

EDIT: And carlton beat me while the page was loading. Damn dial-up.

Geekhis Khan · Dec 10, 2009

Wow, an OTL Tamilwank!

There's a possibility there in some sort of resurgent Chola empire. How probable is such a thing?

Edit: Wow, the more I read about the Chola the cooler it gets. The cooperation with the Song dynasty in particular raises some AH possibilities.

There's a great ATL in there somewhere, I know it.

Wolfpaw · Dec 10, 2009

What about the various Swahili city-states of East Africa? Surely there was one that could have become dominant. Wasn't there a really powerful, prosperous one around South Africa that the Portugese looted and burned?

MNP · Dec 10, 2009

Geekhis Khan said:
Wow, an OTL Tamilwank!

There's a possibility there in some sort of resurgent Chola empire. How probable is such a thing?

Edit: Wow, the more I read about the Chola the cooler it gets. The cooperation with the Song dynasty in particular raises some AH possibilities.

There's a great ATL in there somewhere, I know it.

Something in the pipe for RoS (of course). What I'm not sure on is the prohibition against sea voyages. Obviously it didn't stop the Chola, but... I don't know much about it.

Wolfpaw · Dec 10, 2009

Just done some quick research. I think that the Swahili city-states of Malindi and Mombasa really have some potential. Both were major, major trading ports in East Africa.

Perhaps if you could unite them instead of having them rivalling each other, some sort of Swahili statelet could emerge that could come to dominate the Indian Ocean basin. And once Zheng He visits...well, maybe a strong Swahili nation could inspire strong Sino-Swahili cooperation, though ultimately that will be decided by the mandarins in Nanjing/Beijing.

araraya · Dec 10, 2009

How about Axum? They were a important power in their time iirc.

Geekhis Khan · Dec 11, 2009

Hmmm...the Swahili statelet has rule of cool potential for sure. I can almost envision an IO wank TL where we have three competing/cooperating maritime empires, Chola, Omani, and Swahili, establishing some major continuous and sustained communications and trade networks through the IO. If this is big and regular enough might we see ideas and tech pass about? Imagine Chinese tech and Islamic learning passing into Africa. Imagine cultural exchanges. Assuming butterflies don't sink the Treasure Fleets *Zheng-He might just encounter something worth the Dragon Throne's continued time and effort.

I want to write this TL now. Man, if I wasn't already swamped...

Anyone want a TL idea?

AuroraBorealis · Dec 11, 2009

vijayanagar anyone

which by the 1500's had replaced the Chola. Now of course if one accepts that Saint Thomas actually went to the Malabari cities and southern India and if he were to establish a lasting presence church in Southern india you could by the time the Portuguese show up have a southern India with a substantial Christian population, but nowhere near a majority of course...just a major presence and important minority. then they may have looked at establishing an an active alliance with the Vijayanagar, based on trade and mutual protection of interests

ninebucks · Dec 11, 2009

Realistically, it'd have to be a state of the Indian subcontinent. An African state would never be able to dominate Indochina and an Indochinese state would never be able to dominate Africa.

Thande · Dec 12, 2009

Falastur said:
The Sultanate of Muscat and Oman controlled what is now Oman, I think parts of Yemen, the island of Socotra, and from the island of Zanzibar controlled a vast swathe of the African coastline which turned into the basis for the German colony of Tanganyika and the British colony of Kenya. They also controlled several strategic and commercial ports in what is now Somaliland. They maintained this dominance through trading profits for several centuries, overcoming Portuguese domination and flourishing up until the family split into two parts, dividing their inheritance and swiftly being annexed by Europeans a few decades into the 19th century.

Don't forget they also had Gwadar in what's now Pakistan until the 1950s.

Flocculencio · Dec 12, 2009

Geekhis Khan said:
I'm absolutely no expert in this area, but I've always wondered, knowing about OTL's wide-ranging Indian Ocean trade network, if some Athens or Carthage-like maritime economic hegemonic power could arise along the Indian Ocean? I'm imagining a naval power with a signifigant advantage in naval tech over their neighbors capable of virtually monopolising the oceanic trade and creating an economic empire with outlying trade colonies.

1. Did anything of the sort exist OTL on any scale? If so who, when, how long?

The Cholas had a loose thallasocracy from around the 3rd to the 10th C- they were acknowledged as overlords by a number of the SE Asian princedoms.

Edit: D'oh!

Michael B · Dec 12, 2009

ninebucks said:
Realistically, it'd have to be a state of the Indian subcontinent. An African state would never be able to dominate Indochina and an Indochinese state would never be able to dominate Africa.

It is worth remembering that the Indian Ocean is a lot bigger than the Med, of which the only people really dominated was the Romans. The Carthaginians were limited to the Western Med and the Athenians to the East plus the Black Sea.

Geekhis Khan · Dec 14, 2009

Michael B said:
It is worth remembering that the Indian Ocean is a lot bigger than the Med, of which the only people really dominated was the Romans. The Carthaginians were limited to the Western Med and the Athenians to the East plus the Black Sea.

That's one of the reasons I'm starting to think of a "three-to-four state solution". One African, one Arabic, one Indian, and/or one Indochinese (pick three or more). Mostly the idea is to pull advances from West Asia and/or China across the IO, changing the face of IO history.

Ahura Mazda · Dec 14, 2009

What are the most likely candidates in the eastern part of the Indian Ocean?

Malacka is obvious, but what others? Aceh or something?

Gecko · Dec 14, 2009

Ahura Mazda said:
What are the most likely candidates in the eastern part of the Indian Ocean?

Malacka is obvious, but what others? Aceh or something?

The two best candidates are Srivijaya (c.700-1300) and Majapahit (c.1300-1500). Of the two, Srivijaya seems to have been more maritime oriented, so I'd probably go with them.