WI: Henry VIII has a daughter from Catherine Parr

[Euphemios]

Parr being Henry's last wife, and the one to which he died married, what if she had borne him a daughter? Despite the Elizabeth-Mary-Anne obsession of the period, let us call her Eleanor.

She will presumably be raised Protestant, and be fully legitimate, as Henry had no severe grievances with his last wife.
How does this change the dynamic of the Tudor siblings? Does she fully supplant Elizabeth?
I believe Elizabeth would have had no base of her own, if not for her status as the Protestant in opposition to Mary.

Does she succeed Edward if he dies on schedule, or is there struggle, presumably initiated by Mary?
She has a superior position to Jane Grey, but I do not know if that would save her if Mary rebels anyway.

 

[BoleynBuff]

She would be ahead of Mary in the succession. Mary would also have difficulty rebelling since she’d be going against her father’s will, but the age of this daughter lends itself to a chaotic regency, especially if Catherine Parr still marries Thomas Seymour.

 

[revlark]

I mean, very unlikely. Henry was very old and sick, and everyone felt that it would be impossible for him to even try to conceive a child. I'm not even sure he consummated the marriage with Parr. She was much more of a nursemaid than a wife.

But yes, she would be ahead of both Mary and Elizabeth, and Edward's regents would try and find a husband as soon as possible. Thomas Seymour is not a man I want near the regency, so I doubt Catherine would be able to marry him - or, at the very least, not for several years.

 

[Tudorfan]

Well, if she goes the same as Edward and dies at, say, 15/16 and is born in 1544 (approximately?), then we have no Catholic interlude with Mary, since it'd go:

1. Edward - super Protestant.
2. Sister - Protestant
3. Elizabeth - Protestant

And we'd never have a Catholic monarch again since it would be way too entrenched by then.

If she doesn't die young, then we have a Queen who won't be marrying until about 1560ish, which opens a whole new can of worms.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

I'm not even sure he consummated the marriage with Parr. She was much more of a nursemaid than a wife.

It was consummated, provisions were made of posthumous children...

 

[HortenseMancini]

I think little Maud (what I prefer to think a daughter of Henry and Katherine would be named) has a damned good chance of succeeding Edward vi as queen regnant if he dies on schedule. Mary might raise a fuss but with two ‘legitimate’ kids, I doubt Henry would feel so inclined to put her or Elizabeth back in the line of succession. Depends on how threatened Katherine feels probably. On the one hand nobody expected Edward vi to die young so Maud’s position as her brother’s potential heiress presumptive might not be taken seriously, and Katherine was very much a mending fences kinda woman. On the other hand maud is going to be automatically seen as second in line for the throne and Katherine, while a good stepmother, surely can’t be expected to desire her Catholic stepdaughter to potentially ascend to the throne ahead of her own little girl.

Now regarding maud’s place as Edward VI’s heiress should he still die in 1553 there are a couple things that will factor in. One is her mom. Katherine made a serious blunder in marrying Thomas Seymour IOTL and a big part of her daughter’s position with Edward and his regent(s) is going to depend on whether or not that still happens here and, if it does, whether or not Thomas and Katherine meet their respective otl fates. The other factor is northumberland. Edward VI’s reign eventually devolved into a power struggle between northumberland and his uncle Somerset. IOTL northumberland, who was super ambitious, won out and I can’t say for sure if that would happen here but if it does I can guarantee that he would throw his weight behind the Protestant minor maud instead of the adult Catholic Mary, probably with a view to being lord protector for maud and eventually marrying her off to some relative of his.

 

[Euphemios]

If she doesn't die young, then we have a Queen who won't be marrying until about 1560ish, which opens a whole new can of worms.

Who would be available by then for consideration?

 

[Tudorfan]

Who would be available by then for consideration?

If she’s willing to offend Scotland, Charles of France is available (or his older brother, Francis) if England marries to screw over Scotland by marrying him before MQoS does in 1558…

 

[FalconHonour]

Who would be available by then for consideration?

One of Francis II's younger brothers, maybe? Or perhaps a Danish prince, if there's one going? A surviving Albert of Saxony could work too.

 

[HortenseMancini]

If she’s willing to offend Scotland, Charles of France is available (or his older brother, Francis) if England marries to screw over Scotland by marrying him before MQoS does in 1558…

One of Francis II's younger brothers, maybe? Or perhaps a Danish prince, if there's one going? A surviving Albert of Saxony could work too.

Personally I would give frances brandon a surviving son in 1545 or so (so either in place of mary or just before or after her). Another idea would be charles of austria (b. 1540). I absolutely 100% cannot see the english allowing a match between maud and francis ii of france, or any of his brothers once they become king.

 

[Tudorfan]

Personally I would give frances brandon a surviving son in 1545 or so (so either in place of mary or just before or after her). Another idea would be charles of austria (b. 1540). I absolutely 100% cannot see the english allowing a match between maud and francis ii of france, or any of his brothers once they become king.

I mean, Elizabeth seriously considered it and it'd screw Scotland over and unite England with France permanently against Spain.

 

[HortenseMancini]

I mean, Elizabeth seriously considered it and it'd screw Scotland over and unite England with France permanently against Spain.

Hercules François was merely heir presumptive, which is different than actually being king. also spain and england are allies at this point and will likely remain so without mary's otl marriage to sour things there (and this will especially be the case if the french and scots remain connected by marriage)

 

[Tudorfan]

Hercules François was merely heir presumptive, which is different than actually being king. also spain and england are allies at this point and will likely remain so without mary's otl marriage to sour things there (and this will especially be the case if the french and scots remain connected by marriage)

Yes, but just think of all that land they'd have! England and France united - they'd be a force to be reckoned with!

 

[ordinarylittleme]

I absolutely 100% cannot see the english allowing a match between maud and francis ii of france, or any of his brothers once they become king.

Just let Henry II's OTL second son live longer....Francis II being healthier and having kids with MQOS also would help

 

[HortenseMancini]

Yes, but just think of all that land they'd have! England and France united - they'd be a force to be reckoned with!

doesn't matter, the english wouldn't stand for a pu with france at this point

Just let Henry II's OTL second son live longer....Francis II being healthier and having kids with MQOS also would help

maybe...in theory...i still think a habsburg is more likely if maud marries a foreigner (or potentially surviving son of james v of scotland)

 

[ordinarylittleme]

i still think a habsburg is more likely if maud marries a foreigner (or potentially surviving son of james v of scotland)

I don't think the Habsburgs will want to marry a Protestant, queen regnant or not....alt-James VI would unite the isles, would Katherine want that?

 

[BoleynBuff]

I don't think the Habsburgs will want to marry a Protestant, queen regnant or not....alt-James VI would unite the isles, would Katherine want that?

Elizabeth I almost married Charles of Austria…though if Ferdinand I makes the same demands he did IOTL, that match will likely be dead in the water.

 

[Avrorrange]

Personally I would give frances brandon a surviving son in 1545 or so (so either in place of mary or just before or after her). Another idea would be charles of austria (b. 1540). I absolutely 100% cannot see the english allowing a match between maud and francis ii of france, or any of his brothers once they become king.

Which traitor is gonna stop the crown from enforcing its rightful claims over France? Off with his head….no bring me a sword, I will duel and slay the traitor on the spot!/j

 

[Tudorfan]

doesn't matter, the english wouldn't stand for a pu with france at this point

Don't forget - until the Daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine Parr dies it won't be a personal union. If she lives as long as Elizabeth and dies in her 70th year on Earth, she's not dying until 1614 - at which point it's possible she could be succeeded by a grandson. The personal union won't happen for ages.

 

[jennynin]

Ooh, some possibly ASB marriage options for Queen Maud Tudor that aren't French or Hapsburg, just for fun

• Henry or George Hastings: Both have Plantagenet blood, both are rich, and both were loyal to Elizabeth OTL. With Henry, Maud may or may not have children, as he had none OTL. With George she might be luckier. House would be probably renamed Hastings or Hastings-Tudor.
• John II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg: listen he's son of a king and OTL had 21 legitimate children. How hilarious would it be for the new generation of Tudors to be massive. Have Maud earn the nickname of the Grandmother of Europe. Could possibly start the House of Oldenburg-Tudor, which also sounds cool.
• Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley: Also has Tudor blood, a claim to the English throne, and has some English sympathies due to his father siding with the English during The Rough Wooing. Also it would suit Mary Tudor immensely, as OTL she wanted Darnleys mother, Margaret Lennox, on the English throne at some point. English House of Stuart a few decades early.
• Edward Seymour, 1st Earl of Hertford, 1st Baron Beauchamp: As if the Seymours wouldn't try to marry him to the potential Queen of England in this timeline as well.
• John III of Sweden: Was known to try and moderate between Catholicism and Lutheranism, so depending on Mauds views on religion could be a deciding factor. John also visited England OTL to propose marriage between Elizabeth and his brother Erik.