If Greece, the Netherlands, Spain, and Sweden all joined the Central powers, how much sooner would WW! end, what concessions would they demand, and what does postwar Europe look like?
WI: Greece, the Netherlands, Spain, and Sweden join the Central powers
- Thread starter Kaiser Tito
- Start date
You’d be better off justifying a scenario for why these countries would act against their OTL counterparts and join the Central Powers. How they perform in the war is dependent pretty heavily on how they got into the war. Without that information it’s difficult to speculate.
And while Sweden came relatively close, it’d be hard to justify any of the others. In the Netherlands for instance, should she align with the CP the Royal Navy can just sail into Amsterdam harbor and blow the city to smithereens. With her ports blockaded, her economy would crumble and her colonies be lost. Should she align with the Allies, well, the western trenches already ran near their border. It would only take the Germans days to mount an invasion, and the Dutch armed forces of the time would not be able to stop them. Staying neutral is what kept the country from ruin.
And while Sweden came relatively close, it’d be hard to justify any of the others. In the Netherlands for instance, should she align with the CP the Royal Navy can just sail into Amsterdam harbor and blow the city to smithereens. With her ports blockaded, her economy would crumble and her colonies be lost. Should she align with the Allies, well, the western trenches already ran near their border. It would only take the Germans days to mount an invasion, and the Dutch armed forces of the time would not be able to stop them. Staying neutral is what kept the country from ruin.
I don't see how those 4 countries have mutually aligning interests with each other or the other Central Powers, and sometimes they have competing interests. So World War 1 might not have a proper "end" and look more like the Napoleonic Wars where Britain chips away at the continental hegemon while other powers enter and leave the war over many years.
* Greece had a pro-German king.
* Sweden also has sympathies to Germany.
* Spain had conflicts with Germany a few times. So maybe more colonies and out of convenience.
* The Netherlands also was kind of pro-German.
Greece fighting on the same side as the Ottomans ? Or Bulgaria for that matter ? And to gain what territories ?
Greece would have gained nothing but a lot of dead even if the CP won and the Greek Government knew it.
Well in Spain's case, depending on when it joined, you'd immediately open up a front on the Iberian Peninsula, at least after 1916 when Portugal joined the Entente. Which would have its own regional repercussions.
But with British and Italian control of the Mediterranean and France on the Pyrenees and in North Africa they're very much on their own. At a minimum their remaining colonies will be gobbled up (including the Canary Islands). Can't see what would possess them to make this decision in light of all that.
But with British and Italian control of the Mediterranean and France on the Pyrenees and in North Africa they're very much on their own. At a minimum their remaining colonies will be gobbled up (including the Canary Islands). Can't see what would possess them to make this decision in light of all that.
But we can have Greece gain some territory in Macedonia and the Italian Aegean in a CP victory. That can happen if Venizelos is ousted from power instead of the king.
Greece , King is pro German but not the people , allying with the Turks would not be popular. Even suggesting joining the CP unless victory is certain likely just to get an earlier Greek Republic.
Sweden , very little to gain ( Finland's gratitude? ) and a lot to lose ( RN can easily block any Swedish ship leaving the Baltic )
Spain , can get Gibraltar but loses Canaries , Balearic's and Madeira. Would be totally blockaded by land and sea
Netherlands , makes the RN blockade of Germany easier, almost certain to lose the DEI and economy gets ruined
Netherlands honestly worked better as a neutral because food and other resources can get through her, not immense quantity but some and his army is not really ready to fight and same for Sweden (but at least there is the historical close call due to a stupid russian admiral)...if they are part of the CP the blockade will fully include them and not only they will starve even worse than OTL but Germany will get lot less than OTL
The Greeks are in general pro-entente and Bulgaria and OE are really not in their list of friend, even because they target land that belong to them or they also want, maybe if Bulgaria is a member of the Entente but frankly the most probable event is a national schism.
Spain also don't have the army and the navy, their economy is not in a good place and the internal situation is troublesome
Spain joins the Central Powers?
Guess where all those troops that went to Gallipoli and Salonica go instead as well as the Portuguese Expeditionary Force.
Guess where all those troops that went to Gallipoli and Salonica go instead as well as the Portuguese Expeditionary Force.
It also was a sea surrounded by land which could be understood by everyone in Greece including someone who wasn't the sharpest kid on the block like Constantine
The British public are not going to accept a forever war, not with the kind of causality reports they’d be seeing. I think England will find it dramatically more difficult to restart hostilities once a peace has been agreed.
On top of that could the war end quicker due to the Central power's increased manpower?
The Nethwrlands has too much to lose and not much to gain in the Central Powers, and they help Germany way more as acting as a neutral nation.
Something would have to change in Spain, such as a Hohenzollern king and/or a German-sympathetic government. They also need a rebuilt military, a healthier economy, one also less dependent on trade, especially from Britain and France.
Sweden might happen. They have less to gain, at most the Aland Islands, Finnish borderlands and a Swede on Finland's throne.
If Greece is in the Central Powers, either Bulgaria or the Ottomans have to not be present. I could very well see a CP Greece that fights the OE alongside Bulgaria. Greece and Bulgaria need to be on better terms, and Greece and Serbia (and Montenegro) need to be on much worse terms. I could see A-H accepting North Epirus going to Greece in exchange for them entering the war.
In closing, Germany won't want the Netherlands to join, Spain probably wouldn't barring a POD of atleast prior to the Franco-Prussian war, Sweden is quite doable, and Greece requires significant change in CP lineup.
Something would have to change in Spain, such as a Hohenzollern king and/or a German-sympathetic government. They also need a rebuilt military, a healthier economy, one also less dependent on trade, especially from Britain and France.
Sweden might happen. They have less to gain, at most the Aland Islands, Finnish borderlands and a Swede on Finland's throne.
If Greece is in the Central Powers, either Bulgaria or the Ottomans have to not be present. I could very well see a CP Greece that fights the OE alongside Bulgaria. Greece and Bulgaria need to be on better terms, and Greece and Serbia (and Montenegro) need to be on much worse terms. I could see A-H accepting North Epirus going to Greece in exchange for them entering the war.
In closing, Germany won't want the Netherlands to join, Spain probably wouldn't barring a POD of atleast prior to the Franco-Prussian war, Sweden is quite doable, and Greece requires significant change in CP lineup.