WI: Felix Steiner carried out Hitler's order and counter-attacked the Russians in Berlin?

Would Berlin still have fallen if Steiner counter-attacked

  • Yes

    Votes: 239 94.5%

  • No

    Votes: 14 5.5%
  • Total voters
    253

ivanotter

It would not have mattered at all, as also pointed out.

What is amazing that after the Ardennes, we do not see a lot more Germans surrender. Beginning of 1945 should have convinced anybody that the only chance of survival is to surrender.

But still ....

Sure SS and Gestapo were still around, but it is difficult to threaten somebody who is a POW on the other side.
 
Resurgam

Resurgam

ivanotter said:
What is amazing that after the Ardennes, we do not see a lot more Germans surrender. Beginning of 1945 should have convinced anybody that the only chance of survival is to surrender.

But still ....
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Indoctrination and propaganda are a hell of a combo.

I suggested The End by Ian Kershaw. It's a deep dive into German opinion and support of the regime from 20 July to the surrender.
 

Hammerbolt

The more I think about it the more the whole idea is just... beyond ASB. Steiner could have a few dozen Warhammer 40k Space Marines and he would still loose, because there's simply no way to go around the truly massive overpowered force that was the soviet army at this point. Here we have a force that, faced with a lack of proper infantry numbers for a city fight (something they had allready proven to be masters of) simply decided to bring up moar 122, 152 and 203mm guns and just demolish every building from with even a single rifle poped out. A tank blows up? No problem comrade, just level that building and bring up a dozen more.
 

marktaha

Banned
pattersonautobody said:
TIK history argues what was their other option? They did not have the fuel to maneuver. One cannot retreat indefinitely either. It does seem that if they had better intelligence, simply retreating before massive attacks went off would have helped because the enemy's logistics is usually what stopped them, never really the Germans.
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Retreat, dig in , let them come after you.
 

Garrison

Donor
marktaha said:
No lack of manpower- just of equipment and willpower. If they'd all.been as fanatical as Hitler...
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Given that Germany in 1945 was reduced to using old men and boys on the frontlines, I'm going to stick with being short of manpower. And fanaticism is no substitute for firepower.
 

Crowbar Six

David Flin said:
But you can threaten their family.
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At that point how would they know. By March 1945 internal line of communications were chaotic, there were massive numbers of POW's being taken and the delays in notification via the Red Cross meant even the Gestapo would take time to track down their families and given the disruption caused by civilians fleeing (mainly) the Russians meant putting their hands on the families would be problematical.
 

The Tai-Pan

marktaha said:
No lack of manpower- just of equipment and willpower. If they'd all.been as fanatical as Hitler...
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Sure, it would be more bloody, but the outcome is not in doubt. The Russians were fully willing and capable of killing every German male, if it came to it (which of course, it never would).
 

Amadeus

The rag-tag German forces are slaughtered by the Russians in a matter of hours, and little to nothing changes except that more people needlessly die because of Adolf Hitler.
 
Last edited:
Drunkrobot

Drunkrobot

Thanks to support from the Fuhrer, via both his genius critical thinking and from his nuclear-powered, double-chaingun-armed mechsuit, Steiner counterattacks the Red Army to a bloody standstill and enables Germany to negotiate an end to the war.
 
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