WI/AHC: A "Prussia of the Americas"?

[Workable Goblin]

This phrase occurred to me recently apropos of a post I made a long time ago in a different thread, and I've been wondering just what exactly it could mean and what a "Prussia of the Americas" would look like. Presumably it means a country, probably (but not necessarily) a small one, that has a large and, importantly, effective and respected military relative to its size, with a high degree of militarization, similar to, well, Prussia, or Bulgaria, the "Prussia of the Balkans". This characterization naturally leads to two questions:

1. Which countries in the Americas were most likely to become "Prussia"? Paraguay seems to be an obvious choice given their OTL behavior, presumably with someone more competent and diplomatically gifted than Francisco Solano López at the helm so that they never have to fight all of their neighbors simultaneously, but perhaps Uruguay, Ecuador, Chile, or one of the Central American states might be more successful? Or maybe one of the larger states, Argentina or Mexico or even the U.S.?
2. What would the effects of having a "Prussia" be? Presumably the Americas would be more war-torn, since a country with a large and effective military and a militarized culture would be likely to use war to get its way. Depending on just which country becomes a "Prussia," I would imagine you would see different geopolitical effects; a "Prussian" U.S. would certainly come into conflict with Britain and spur the latter to invest in defenses for Canada, for instance, while conversely a "Prussian" Mexico would probably deter American adventurism into the region and definitely "encourage" investment in the American army.

 

[dcharles]

This phrase occurred to me recently apropos of a post I made a long time ago in a different thread, and I've been wondering just what exactly it could mean and what a "Prussia of the Americas" would look like. Presumably it means a country, probably (but not necessarily) a small one, that has a large and, importantly, effective and respected military relative to its size, with a high degree of militarization, similar to, well, Prussia, or Bulgaria, the "Prussia of the Balkans". This characterization naturally leads to two questions:

1. Which countries in the Americas were most likely to become "Prussia"?

The CSA.

 

[DontBrawlWithSaul]

The CSA.

The CSA has way too many internal issues to conceive of externally expanding a la Golden Circle; it collapses before then.

The easiest, but boring answer is the US, but crank the Manifest Destiny up. This’ll get it larger and more expansive (with a better focus on the army for one), but at the cost of international relations, especially with Britain.

 

[Slime_blob]

This phrase occurred to me recently apropos of a post I made a long time ago in a different thread, and I've been wondering just what exactly it could mean and what a "Prussia of the Americas" would look like. Presumably it means a country, probably (but not necessarily) a small one, that has a large and, importantly, effective and respected military relative to its size, with a high degree of militarization, similar to, well, Prussia, or Bulgaria, the "Prussia of the Balkans". This characterization naturally leads to two questions:

1. Which countries in the Americas were most likely to become "Prussia"? Paraguay seems to be an obvious choice given their OTL behavior, presumably with someone more competent and diplomatically gifted than Francisco Solano López at the helm so that they never have to fight all of their neighbors simultaneously, but perhaps Uruguay, Ecuador, Chile, or one of the Central American states might be more successful? Or maybe one of the larger states, Argentina or Mexico or even the U.S.?
2. What would the effects of having a "Prussia" be? Presumably the Americas would be more war-torn, since a country with a large and effective military and a militarized culture would be likely to use war to get its way. Depending on just which country becomes a "Prussia," I would imagine you would see different geopolitical effects; a "Prussian" U.S. would certainly come into conflict with Britain and spur the latter to invest in defenses for Canada, for instance, while conversely a "Prussian" Mexico would probably deter American adventurism into the region and definitely "encourage" investment in the American army.

It would most likely be Bolivia if Peru Bolivia survive and retains coastline and wins against Chile , as Santa Cruz is reforming Bolivia and is slowly making a rival to Brazil, Argentina, or Chile Or Mexico if they just sold the land they lost to the US for $300,000,000 in 1800s value and avoids the US mexican war and texan rebellion. and the coups and Santa Anna maybe having a serious presidency, trying to court both Liberals and Conservatives to unite, If they sold it and kept the rest, They will have money to pay their debts and to develop and strenghten themselves.

Wildcard pick would be the UPCA if they manage to survive and do what is needed. The fact that they are the least devastated country where their revolution is just a UDI and MExico dont cares. They would be a power, if Morazan is a moderate liberal not a radical liberal who rushed the reforms that caused all these mess, we need Jose Valle the conservative to declare a unitary state and win the first election, to centralize power and further go good the development. Or just a more moderate Morazan, who did not rushed the reforms.

 

[Beacon]

Texas, if they survive in a war against Mexico as well as the USA

 

[Nivek]

Gran Colombia wanted to be that and failed

 

[LeCHVCK]

I think to qualify as "Prussia of x" the state needs to be medium sized. Prussia was the weakest of the european great powers of the 19th century until the german-german war. Previously before the Congress of Vienna or better before Jena it's debatable to even call it a great power. That's why I don't think the USA could be called the american Prussia. It's too big and too powerful. It's more like France.

 

[Workable Goblin]

I think to qualify as "Prussia of x" the state needs to be medium sized. Prussia was the weakest of the european great powers of the 19th century until the german-german war. Previously before the Congress of Vienna or better before Jena it's debatable to even call it a great power. That's why I don't think the USA could be called the american Prussia. It's too big and too powerful. It's more like France.

Well, in the 1880s, sure. But the 1780s...not so much. Sure, the United States after the Treaty of Paris was big in area, but it wasn't that big in terms of population. Prussia had about twice the population of the United States in 1800 (the easiest year for me to get information), and it had about the same population as New Spain (ergo Mexico, if it had been independent). It was per-capita fairly wealthy, sure, but in absolute terms nothing particularly special. So a U.S. that became highly militarized in the late 18th or early 19th centuries really would be like Prussia, particularly in comparison to Britain. Later on, of course, it would become a continental hegemon if it was successful (as IOTL), but that would be analogous to Prussia forming the German Empire, which was still considered "Prussian" in a sense.

 

[Rattenfänger von Memphis]

1. Which countries in the Americas were most likely to become "Prussia"? Paraguay seems to be an obvious choice given their OTL behavior, presumably with someone more competent and diplomatically gifted than Francisco Solano López at the helm so that they never have to fight all of their neighbors simultaneously

I would choose Paraguay. They fought against Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay and lost, as you pointed out, but it was a vicious, long struggle. Reminds me of Frederick the Great's Prussia against most of Europe in the Seven Years War. Paraguay also defeated the larger Bolivia in the Chaco War of the 1930s and got much new territory proving that their military prowess was no fluke.

Prussia first grew strong by having a well-trained military that one of her kings, Frederick the Great, was finally willing to use and by encouraging immigration into Prussia (the Huguenots) and by seizing nearby territory (Silesia) which spoke the same language and could be easily incorporated into Prussia. Paraguay has these same characteristics and there was much territory around it that was Spanish-speaking. The potential was certainly there.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Wank Paraguay's development in the 19th century and screw Argentina, and they should be able to fight the War of the Triple Alliance and win. If Argentina collapses back into civil war, then Paraguay can fight Brazil to a standstill and claim victory. For Paraguay, give them a bit larger navy and stronger forts. Ideally Paraguay will get part of the disputed land in Mato Grosso (maybe like the southern 20% of modern Mato Grosso do Sul) and maybe even a part of Rio Grande do Sul/Santa Catarina (borders were not fixed until the late 19th century IIRC) and a lot of land disputed with Argentina like Corrientes/Misiones and the Chaco area. A lot depends on how poorly Buenos Aires does in the war/civil war, and wouldn't be surprised if Paraguay faced revolts from their provinces conquered from Argentina. Of course, Paraguay will also receive free navigation rights to the Paraguay and Uruguay Rivers. Ideally, they'd be able to annex the entirety of Argentine Mesopotamia and get access to the sea, but this is unlikely and I think they'd be booted out by rebels from the area.

This of course greatly enhances their situation in regards to trade and economics and allows them to more effectively develop the vast amount of land they just annexed. Their further reputation as the "Prussia of the Americas" can come from perhaps another successful war against Argentina (this time with Brazil as an ally) a few decades down the line and of course a successful military resolution to the Chaco dispute. Paraguay would rank among the finest nations at riverine warfare and fighting battles in a tropical environment and have quite a proud military tradition.

They'd be more economically developed than OTL, probably not too much lower than neighbours, and have an extra 2-3 million people.

 

[Lenwe]

Well Obviously this is Chile, I mena look at our Army

The Chilean Army: Boldly Goose-Stepping into the Future

Whenever I want to explain the lingering influence of Germany on the militaries of South America, especially Chile, I show people this video... https://youtu.be/U3Kdic-Z2-4 Chilean Army P...

eccentricculinary.com

Spoiler: Photos

Plus we did fight against all our neigbords one time or another, conquered territories and expanded our country after most of the wars, so yeah I propose Chile as South America Prussia